Whitehorse, Yukon

Thursday, March 9, 1989 - 3:00 p.m.

Speaker: I will now call the House to order.

We will proceed at this time with prayers.

Prayers

DAILY ROUTINE

Speaker: We will proceed with the Order Paper.

Introduction of Visitors.

Are there any Returns or Documents for Tabling?

Are there any Petitions?

Introduction of Bills?

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill No. 51: Introduction and First Reading

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 51 entitled First Appropriation Act 1989-90, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker: It has been moved by the Minister of Finance that Bill No. 51, entitled First Appropriation Act, 1989-90 be now introduced and read a first time.

Motion agreed to

Bill No. 10: Introduction and First Reading

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 10 entitled Interim Supply Appropriation Act, 1989-90 be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker: It has been moved by the Minister of Finance that Bill No. 10 entitled Interim Supply Appropriation Act, 1989-90 be now introduced and read a first time.

Motion agreed to

Bill No. 25: Introduction and First Reading

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 25, entitled Fifth Appropriation Act, 1987-88, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Finance that Bill No. 25, entitled Fifth Appropriation Act, 1987-88, be now introduced and read a first time.

Motion agreed to

Bill No. 33: Introduction and First Reading

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 33, entitled Third Appropriation Act, 1988-89, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Finance that Bill No. 33, entitled Third Appropriation Act, 1988-89, be now introduced and read a first time.

Motion agreed to

Speaker: Notices of Motion for the Production of Papers?

Notices of Motion?

Statements by Ministers?

This then brings us to Question Period.

QUESTION PERIOD

Question re: Hyland Forest Products joint venture

Mr. Phelps: Thank you, Mr. Speaker and welcome back. My first question is to the Government Leader concerning the sale of Hyland Forest Products. The sale, by the way, was hastily conceived and completed, and announced just before the last election. The Government Leader said that he would make all the details of this transaction public before the election. Why did he fail to do so?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Because the deal was not closed until after the election.

Mr. Phelps: In answering the question the Government Leader relies on our belief that for some reason the details could not have been disclosed before now. When does the Government Leader intend to give us full disclosure of the details of the sale?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: My intention is that next week I will not only make information about the sale public in this house, but I will also, consistent with the persistent and pressing demands of the Leader of the Official Opposition, disclose information about the operating picture of the company to date, as long as the Leader of the Official Opposition understands, of course, that in accounting terms this will be a preliminary financial picture and until the closing of the year and the accountants have completed their work it may be incomplete or imprecise from an accounting point of view.

Mr. Phelps: I am pleased with the offer. Will the disclosure contain information about whether or not the taxpayers of the Yukon are going to be carrying part of the burden of the purchase price?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I hope to be able to describe to the House and to the public all the benefits that the territory as a whole, and the people of Watson Lake in particular, will be able to realize and appreciate from this transaction. I hope that the information I will be able to provide next week will answer all the questions the Leader of the Official Opposition has asked so far and any questions that we might reasonably be able to anticipate.

Question re: Hyland Forest Products joint venture

Mr. Phelps: We are pleased at the promises made by the Government Leader. Can the Government Leader bring officials from the corporation to this House to sit as witnesses so that, in Committee of the Whole, we can ask them questions about the drastic losses experienced by the corporation?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I would be prepared to entertain the request if the Member opposite would clarify if he is seeking witnesses before the Committee of the Whole during discussion of the Estimates, or whether he is seeking some extraordinary procedure beyond those contemplated in our rules. Perhaps the Member could be more specific about his request. Perhaps he could make it to me in writing, then I could then deal with it properly.

Mr. Phelps: I would suggest that they could be brought forward during the debate about the Estimates so these officials could answer questions about the operations of the Yukon Development Corporation up to the present time, particularly with regard to the subsidiary responsible for the Hyland Forest Products operation.

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I am going to assume there was a question mark at the end of that statement, and say that I will take the question under advisement. The Leader of the Official Opposition may care to indicate to me later whether, when he refers to officials of the corporation, he is talking about board members or staff, and whether he wants to do an examination of the profitable operations concerning the operation of the power company. I would indicate that if he is inclined to do that I might want to ask if it would not be appropriate to wait until the Public Utilities Board has completed its examination of the rate application. If he simply wants to ask about Hyland Forest Products, I would again ask him to clarify his position on that, not necessarily in Question Period, but in a later communication.

Question re: Hyland Forest Products joint venture

Mr. Phelps: It was just Hyland Forest Products that we were really concerned about because we are concerned about getting at the size of the losses.

I would like to move on to a new question if I may. On January 12 we asked the Government Leader whether the original manager of the mill, Jack Sigalet, or his companies, had a long term contract with Yukon Development Corporation or its subsidiary and continued to be paid by Yukon Development Corporation or Hyland Forest Products or the appropriate company up until the sale was completed. Can the Government Leader answer that question now?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I do not have information at my finger tips that would allow me to give a precise answer but I understand that the arrangement with Mr. Sigalet allowed him to be on call in some advisory capacity following the time of his leaving the company. Perhaps if I take the question as notice I can provide a written answer to the member.

Mr. Phelps: That is fair enough, although there has been considerable time since we asked the questions. Perhaps, when he is preparing his written answer, he can also advise whether it is true that Mr. Sigalet, and/or his companies, had to give their agreement to the sale of Hyland Forest Products.

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I certainly do not believe that is the case but I will in any event respond in writing to that question at the time I respond to the previous question.

Mr. Phelps: Could the Government Leader answer at the same time if it is true that Mr. Sigalet and/or his companies had to be bought out in order for the sale to go through?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Again, I will take the question as notice, Mr. Speaker.

Question re: Hyland Forest Products joint venture

Mr. Nordling: I also have a question for the Government Leader with respect to Hyland Forest Products. On January 12 the Government Leader did not know if any studies had been done to show whether or not the existing leases could give a sustained yield that would meet five times the capacity of the present mill. Does the Government Leader now have any documents or studies that show sustainable yield at the increased level of harvest?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Forgive me, Mr. Speaker, but I believe the Member is being totally inaccurate in his description of my position in my report. I indicated to the Member previously that in fact there have been federal studies done that indicate that the Hyland leases represent a tiny fraction of the total sustainable yield from that forest, and indeed the Hyland leases themselves are only a fraction of the harvest that the federal government has available for lease.

Mr. Nordling: This question was asked on January 12. The Government Leader said, in reply to the Opposition Leader, “As the Opposition Leader well knows, I could not possibly be in a position at this moment to table any such study, should it exist.”

So I have not misrepresented the position of the Government Leader at that time. I would ask if the Government Leader has any inventories or documents whatsoever - commissioned by either the federal government or the Yukon government - that indicate that there is sustainable yield at the increased harvest level?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Again, I am sure that the Member takes some delight in quoting me out of context, but he will know that the precise answer to his preamble is that of course I am not in the position to table a report from the federal government, unless they have chosen to make it public themselves. It is my understanding that they intend to do that. The information that we have from the federal government is that they took a detailed scientific inventory of the forest resource of southeast Yukon, at the cost of $1 million over the last three years, that they used the latest methods available to determine the allowable cut from all of the available forest resources by specie and location, and that the Hyland timber harvesting licence represents less than five percent of the total forest area.

Mr. Nordling: I look forward to receiving that information from the Government Leader, if he gets it.

I would also like to ask if the Yukon government or the federal government has done any environmental impact study whatsoever to determine what effect the increased harvest will have on erosion and, particularly, game in the area.

Hon. Mr. Penikett: As I am sure the Member knows, the concept of sustainable development, sustainable yield, does take a look at the productivity of the land in question, including its impact on wildlife and waters. I am assured that the federal government takes that question into account. The Yukon government has indicated that, as we assume responsibility for the forest in the future, we will want to factor those considerations into our management of the forest. Indeed I believe that I will be able to advise the House, when we provide the information I promised for next week, of assurances that the environmental concerns, employment concerns, and other reasonable concerns of the local community have been addressed by the new owners of the mill and the governments involved in the sale transaction.

Question re: Hyland Forest Products, joint venture

Mr. Devries: I direct this question to the Government Leader.

On 16 January 1989 he assured the employees of Hyland Forest Products that there would be no layoffs as a consequence of the sale of the mill; however, two days after the election there were at least 20 former mill employees not working, not being paid and not eligible for UIC. Can the Government Leader assure the people of Watson Lake that the people affected will be reemployed and, if so, when?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: One, my statement was very precise to the employees in Watson Lake that the total employment as a result of this new investment by the Shieldings Group would increase in that area. I also told the employees at the mill that the number of jobs in the mill might indeed be fewer as a result of the changes that the company was going to bring in.

I do want to congratulate the Member opposite on his maiden question and thank him for his consistent support for the initiative taken by this government in Watson Lake, something that he is singularly at odds with his colleagues on but which we appreciate.

Mr. Devries: Since the government has committed itself to training the workers for the proposed new mill, can the Government Leader advise the House when this training will start and if it will be done in Watson Lake?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: The new operators of the mill are now developing a training plan. Once they have completed that work they will be sitting down with this government to talk about the particular elements of that plan and the role of agencies like Yukon College. It is our hope that much of the training will be on site and in Watson Lake, though I am advised that some specific skill requirements of that mill may well require employees of that mill being sent to other locations in the country for a period of time in order to acquire the skills necessary to operate the new equipment that will be coming into the plant.

Mr. Devries: As the Government Leader knows, many of the people in Watson Lake are experts in the forestry field. Will the government be utilizing these resources in the forestry retraining programs?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Stated that way, it certainly sounds like the desirable objective and I have no problem with that. I do not know which specific individuals the Member has in mind or what particular areas of training he would be recommending those individuals for, but I would be pleased to receive a written representation from the Member and to take it under consideration.

Question re: Department of Education, employee terminations

Mrs. Firth: I have a question for the Minister of Education regarding the firings within his department that have occurred recently.

Did the Minister of Education have discussions with the deputy minister prior to the firings?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: Prior to the personnel changes being made within the department the deputy minister did consult with me, as is to be expected, with respect to any changes that were of any sort of significance. He did that.

Mrs. Firth: Did the Minister have any discussions with the previous deputy minister regarding the firings of the two individuals involved?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I am not going to divulge discussions on personnel matters that I might have had with a previous deputy minister, or any discussions I had with the current deputy minister. The subject of senior staffing has come up in the past with respect to this department with all three deputy ministers I have dealt with.

Mrs. Firth: I guess the Minister is sort of saying yes and he is sort of saying he is not going to tell us the answer.

The Minister has said he had consultations with the deputy minister about the firings prior to the firings. Can the Minister tell us who gave directions for the firings to take place? Was it the deputy minister, who had four days experience as a deputy minister in the Department of Education, or was it the Minister with his previous four years experience?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I have to reiterate that I will not discuss any questions with respect to personnel management of the department on the floor of the Legislature, and I will not be provoked into it by the Member for Riverdale South.

Question re: Department of Education, employee terminations

Mrs. Firth: The Minister has started answering questions in regard to personnel matters, and perhaps he will continue to answer them. Would the Minister answer, specifically, the question about the comments he made to me regarding the individual in question, when he told me their participation in the direction the government wanted to go with the Education Act was counterproductive?

What does that mean? What is the Minister saying?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I will not confirm or deny any confidential discussions I had with the Member for Riverdale South. I will not answer questions with respect to personnel matters within the department.

Mrs. Firth: The discussions were in no way confidential. At no time did we ever discuss confidentiality. The Minister never gave me any indication he wanted me to keep that conversation confidential or private. I told him I would be raising it further in the House.

Speaker: Order, please. Would the Member please get to the supplementary question?

Mrs. Firth: Yes, I will. Was the comment the Minister made to me in that unconfidential discussion relayed to the individuals at the time they were fired?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: Once again, I will restate that I will not comment one way or another with respect to any confidential discussions I had with the Member for Riverdale South with respect to personnel matters within the department, nor will I comment on personnel matters within the department on the floor of the Legislature.

Mrs. Firth: I would like to know what the Minister is talking about. What is counterproductive? Perhaps the Minister has his own new direction for Education. The whole process is still under consultation. What is counterproductive? What does that mean to anybody? Could the Minister tell us if he has his own new direction for the Education Act and for the Department of Education?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: The Department of Education and the government have plans with respect to the general directions of education that were outlined very clearly in the White Paper on Education, which was not only tabled in the Legislature but also made public this last year. The directions that have been set have not been changed by Cabinet, and they will be continued until such time as Cabinet changes those directions.

Question re: Department of Education, employee terminations

Mrs. Firth: I would like to ask a question with respect to the firings, in the context of the information that was given to the public. I think the Minister has a responsibility to account for his comments in public. Why did the Minister tell the media the individuals had been shifted, when they had been fired?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I said no such thing to the media. I indicated to the media there had been personnel changes within the department. I confirmed the fact that there were persons being changed with respect to positions being held, and that the discussions were ongoing, not only with the Public Service Commission but, also, with the department and the individuals with respect to who would be filling what jobs and where people would be going if they were no longer required in any particular job.

Mrs. Firth: The Minister did not make himself clear in the newspaper article when he spoke to the media. He talked about personnel changes that would lead the public and the media to no other conclusion than that the workers had been shifted and that they had not been fired. The deputy minister is talking in terms of the individuals being fired. I would like the Minister to say whether these people have been shifted or fired. Everyone here thinks they have been fired, including the individuals.

Hon. Mr. McDonald: It is clearly not my responsibility to proofread articles that are written in the newspapers in Whitehorse. The difficulty that I would have in trying to design an appropriate response for the media is that I might be drawn into the situation further than is ethical. With respect to the personnel changes in the department, as I understand it, the discussions are ongoing with the individuals involved. When the Public Service Commission and the department and the individuals come to conclusions then I am sure that those conclusions will be made known to all.

Mrs. Firth: The Minister has a responsibility to represent the truth to the public and he has the responsibility to do that openly. At no time did the Minister deny, when I spoke to him, that these individuals had been fired. He never denied...

Speaker: Will the Member please get to the supplementary question?

Mrs. Firth: Well, maybe the Minister could just tell us: Do these people have a job or do they not?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: If the Member comes waltzing into my office demanding a response to something in particular, I do not believe it is my obligation necessarily to respond in great detail, and at her whim. The question that is put now is whether or not there have been firings within the Department of Education at the senior levels, and the answer that I gave before is the same now. The answer is that the discussions are ongoing with the Public Service Commission and the Department of Education and the individuals concerned, and those conclusions will be made available to the public when they are arrived at.

Mr. Lang: I guess that answer means that the people in question do not have a job. I am assuming that that is the case and looking at the CBC news, which is not always correct but generally gets information fairly straightforward to the public, stated that the deputy minister says that people have been moved into the positions left vacant after the firings. I would like to ask a question, although the Minister believes that he is above answering to the public on matters of this kind, I would like to know what this is going to cost the general public in view of the way this has been handled - and badly handled I might add.

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I will not rise to the bait of that particular preamble because I find it particularly objectionable. Nevertheless, when the discussions between the employees and the Public Service Commission are completed, I will be then in a position to indicate whether or not there is an additional cost to the public.

Question re: Highway signs, vandalism

Mr. Phillips: My question is to the Minister of Justice in regard to the repeated vandalism of highway signs south of Whitehorse. This is the second time that these irresponsible vandals have attempted to destroy these signs and the businesses that have put up these have complied with the law in their construction and erection and they seem to have become the victims. Most of you know that these signs can cost anywhere from $500 to $2,000 each. What measures or safeguards will the government be putting in place to protect the investments of these small businesses who are complying completely with the law when they erect their signs?

Hon. Mrs. Joe: As the Member for Riverdale North knows, the incidents happened only yesterday or the day before. I have not had occasion to talk to the RCMP or talk to the government in regard to these incidents. If we are going to be putting in safeguards, I can not answer that question today. But certainly it is a concern to us and we will be looking at the possibilities. I will let the Member know what those safeguards are when they are developed.

Mr. Phillips: It is interesting that the Minister is now going to act on the request of the Opposition. I would have thought that the Minister would have possibly asked the RCMP to step up surveillance of those signs on the highway. Has she made any moves in that way whatever?

Hon. Mrs. Joe: I have only been the Minister of Justice for a week and a half and I think there are many areas of concern regarding justice in the Yukon, and that is one of them. Certainly we will be dealing with it, as we will all other concerns.

Mr. Phillips: I hope that no one else in the Yukon gets vandalized before the Minister of Justice becomes familiarized with her job, or they will be out of luck. Although some people in our society obviously do not like the idea of road signs, it is currently the law, and there are laws strictly controlling the size and quality of these signs. These businesses have complied with the laws. Will your government consider allowing these businesses access to the Victims of Crime fund to replace or repair the damage done by these irresponsible vandals?

Hon. Mrs. Joe: The Member for Riverdale North has taken the opportunity to make comments prior to his questions and that is acceptable to him. He takes great enjoyment out of it and that is fine.

If the Victims of Crime Program deals with situations for victims of crime, and if this fits into that criteria, then certainly that will be a part of it, but to my knowledge there has been no request to do so at this time. Possibly there has been in the last day or so. I do not know.

Question re: Highway signs, vandalism

Mr. Phillips: The question was, and the Minister did not answer it: Will the government consider - if it is not already allowed - expanding the requirements so that the businesses out there, which have now been vandalized a second time - most of these businesses are small businesses and they cannot afford to replace these signs. They are complying with a law that we put in place in this Legislature. Will you allow those businesses to take advantage of the Victims of Crime Fund, to repair the damage done by these vandals?

Hon. Mrs. Joe: I cannot make a decision on the floor of the House in regard to that, as I said to the House after the previous question. We will look at the possibility, certainly, of doing that. There has not, as far as I know, been a request from the businesses to do that, but I will be anticipating that kind of a request.

Question re: Horses, starvation of

Mr. Lang: I am going to direct a question to one of the Ministers who has carried on their responsibilities since the last election - that is the Minister of Renewable Resources. It has to do with the situation ongoing after the election was called: the question respecting the starving horses in the Takhini Valley. It was a very unfortunate situation and I think that it made a lot of people wake up to the situation facing some of the livestock in Yukon that has to be dealt with.

The last public report in one of the newspapers stated that the number of horses that had starved to death was five. Can the Minister confirm today whether or not an additional two horses have died since that public report?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Yes, I can confirm that two more horses have died.

Mr. Lang: The letter dated February 9, signed by a number of concerned citizens and sent to the news media, as well to the leaders of the various political parties, and the Minister of Renewable Resources, stated that both the Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Webster, and Mr. Graham McDonald, who was then the NDP candidate in Hootalinqua, as well the executive assistant to Renewable Resources, were personally aware of the problem - starving horses - as least as far back as January 10, 1989.

Could the Minister inform this House when it was first brought to his attention that these horses were starving to death?

Hon. Mr. Webster: It was first brought to my attention a couple of days after being sworn into office that the horses were being neglected. It had yet to be ascertained as to whether they were starving. It was approximately January 10.

Mr. Lang: There seemed to be such a time lag from when people in authority were made aware that there was a serious problem facing these animals to the point where a decision was taken and the animals were at last brought in for some care and attention. These animals were finally brought in on January 27.

Speaker: Order, please. Would the Member please get to the supplementary question?

Mr. Lang: After the Minister was notified, why did it take at least 17 days before action was taken? We have now had seven dead horses.

Hon. Mr. Webster: It first was not recognized that the horses were being neglected, that is, intentionally starved. People requested the RCMP, who undertook the investigation, to bring in a vet from Skagway to investigate, at which time it was determined that, yes, the horses were not getting sufficient feed, even though our department officials were ensuring that feed was being distributed to all the horses on the lease. That is the reason for the delay.

Question re: Horses, starvation of

Mr. Lang: Did the Minister ever go out and have a look at the horses?

Hon. Mr. Webster: No, I did not.

Mr. Lang: I did, about a week after they were brought in. I am here to inform the Minister and all Members of this House that those horses were in terrible shape. I did not need a vet to tell me they should be fed.

In a letter sent to the Leader of the Official Opposition on February 2, the Minister stated, “Departmental staff also took steps to see that the horses were being cared for at regular intervals.” If the department was checking on these horses, why do we now have seven dead horses?

Hon. Mr. Webster: It was obvious the horses were not responding to the regular treatment that was being provided, and that our departmental officials were making sure was being provided, to the horses. The horses simply were not responding favourably. It led us to the point where we had to remove 17 horses from the lease the first time. They were moved to a farm where they had special treatment and were provided with a special diet to recover.

Mr. Lang: I hope I am never put on the special treatment the Minister administered.

Had there ever been other reports to the Department of Renewable Resources over this past year with respect to livestock starving in other parts of the Yukon or in the same area, over and above what has been publicly reported?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Not that I am aware of.

Question re: Horses, starvation of

Mr. Lang: Would the Minister please check with his department as to whether or not there have been other reports made to the department and report back to the House as soon as possible, to let us know if any other livestock has starved to death over the course of this winter?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Certainly.

Mr. Lang: It is an unfortunate situation that we face today. What steps are being taken to ensure that this does not happen again? Could the Minister report what steps are being taken to ensure that we do not get future reports of horses starving later this winter or next year?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I have to agree with the Member opposite that it is a deplorable situation. Steps are being taken to ensure that such an occurrence does not happen again.

Our department officials will be working closely with the RCMP to determine exactly what their responsibilities are under the Animal Protection Act, and they will also be working with the Yukon Outfitters Association. They have a special committee set up to review the treatment of animals, and we will be looking for their advice as well.

Mr. Lang: There is an immediate situation here. It seems to me that the answer to the question is to form a committee. In the interim, some policy should be put in place giving direction to the Department of Renewable Resources to at least do some checking to ensure that this will not occur in the immediate future.

Has the Minister given any directions to his staff to check on livestock in various parts of the Yukon to ensure that these animals are being properly taken care of?

Hon. Mr. Webster: As I have already indicated, we have set down procedures to ensure that it does not happen again. When the horses did not respond to the regular feeding on the lease, they were brought in and put in the care of an independent farmer and are on a special diet. I am pleased to report that that action has resulted in the recovery of the health of most of the horses.

Question re: Horses, starvation of

Mr. Lang: Nobody is arguing the fact that the horses are being well taken care of now at their present location.

What policy direction has the Minister given to his department to ensure that over the course of this winter this situation is not going to occur again? Is the Department of Renewable Resources staff going out and checking to ensure that ranging horses in various parts of the Yukon are being taken care of?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I can only repeat that indeed they are. I want to make clear that in this particular case, or in any other case that may be existing in the Yukon, the department officials have not been negligent in upholding their responsibilities according to the Pounds Act.

Mr. Lang: In this situation there were reports as early as September 1988 that were brought into the RCMP. It does not just date back to January. It is not a case of complaints appearing in the last month.

What steps is he taking to ensure that this is not going to happen again in the next couple of weeks or months? Sure, after the fact you are going to make sure they are taken care of. There is a responsibility under the Animal Protection Act.

Who is going to make that decision? That is, in part, where the problem was. The RCMP could not take responsibility and neither would the Department of Renewable Resources.

Is the Department of Renewable Resources going to take action under the Animal Protection Act to ensure that, if there are complaints, these animals will be taken care of?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Yes, the Department of Renewable Resources will be, to the legal limits of the Animal Protection Act, doing what it can. We have to work with the RCMP, who are the enforcement agency responsible for that particular act.

Speaker: The time for Question Period has now elapsed. We will now proceed with Orders of the Day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I would like to inform the House of the agreement reached between the House Leaders with respect to House order of business and the dates of sitting for the coming two weeks.

Firstly, it was agreed that the Throne Speech responses are to follow the second readings of the Interim Supply and Supplementary Appropriation bills on Monday. Secondly, the Interim Supply will go to third reading and assent by Thursday. Thirdly, the House will recess for one week, so Members of the House may attend the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association Exchange with Alaska. Fourthly, the House will reconvene on Tuesday, March 28, 1989.

Pursuant to the agreement reached between the House Leaders, I would request the unanimous consent of the House to waive the provision of Standing Order 26(2) in order to proceed with second reading of the Interim Supply and Supplementary Appropriation bills on Monday, March 13, prior to proceeding with debate on the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne.

Speaker: Is there unanimous consent?

All Members: Agreed.

Speaker: There is unanimous consent. The Chair will call Monday’s business in the order now directed by the House.

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I would request the unanimous consent of the House to move two motions without notice for the purpose of appointing the Members’ Services Board and the Advisory Committee on Finance.

Speaker: Is there unanimous consent?

All Members: Agreed.

Speaker: There is unanimous consent.

GOVERNMENT MOTIONS

Motion No. 2

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move

THAT the hon. Speaker, the hon. Mr. Penikett and Mr. Phelps be appointed to the Members’ Services Board;

THAT the Speaker be Chairman of the said Board; and

THAT the said Board assist the Speaker on matters of Assembly organization, including:

(1) Consideration of budget forecasts for the Legislative Assembly vote, and

(2) Consideration of policy questions concerning matters of Assembly organization such as

(a) Assembly research services;

(b) Space allocation;

(c) Expansion or reduction of staffing;

(d) Caucus funding;

(e) Press Gallery House rules;

(f) Seating in the Assembly;

(g) Hansard.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Government House Leader

THAT the hon. Speaker, the hon. Mr. Penikett and Mr. Phelps be appointed to the Members’ Services Board;

THAT the Speaker be the Chairman of the said Board; and

THAT the said Board assist the Speaker on matters of Assembly organization, including:

(1) Consideration of budget forecasts for the Legislative Assembly vote, and

(2) Consideration of policy questions concerning matters of Assembly organization such as

(a) Assembly research services;

(b) Space allocation;

(c) Expansion or reduction of staffing;

(d) Caucus funding;

(e) Press Gallery House rules;

(f) Seating in the Assembly;

(g) Hansard.

Motion  No. 2 agreed to

Motion No. 3

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move

THAT it is the recommendation of this Assembly that the hon. Members Mr. Penikett, Mr. McDonald and Mrs. Joe be appointed to the Advisory Committee on Finance and that the hon.  Members Mr. Byblow and Mr. Webster be appointed as alternate members of the same committee.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. House Leader

THAT it is the recommendation of this Assembly that the hon. Members Mr. Penikett, Mr. McDonald and Mrs. Joe be appointed to the Advisory Committee on Finance and that the hon. Members Mr. Byblow and Mr. Webster be appointed as alternate members of the same committee.

Motion  No. 3  agreed to

Speaker: Pursuant to the direction provided by the House at yesterday’s sitting, I will now call Government Bills.

GOVERNMENT BILLS

Bill No. 51: Second Reading

Clerk: Second Reading, Bill No. 51, standing in the name of the hon. Mr. McDonald.

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I move that Bill No. 51, entitled First Appropriation Act, 1989-90, be now read a second time.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Finance that Bill No. 51, entitled First Appropriation Act, 1989-90, be now read a second time.

Hon. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Speaker and hon. Members, I am pleased to present today the combined Capital and Operation and Maintenance Budget for the fiscal year 1989-90.

Eight short weeks ago, the government introduced a fiscal plan outlining the implementation of a new agenda, policies and programs to deal with the social, economic and environmental concerns of Yukoners. On February 20, the electorate responded by endorsing the fiscal plan with a new mandate for the government. In recognition of this endorsement, the budget before you was prepared.

This government is aware of the concerns that Yukoners have for social, economic and environmental issues. The budget describes initiatives designed to address these concerns while maintaining our commitment to responsible financial management. These initiatives were outlined in the earlier January budget and they constitute the thrust of this budget.

The Yukon economy continued to improve in 1988 and is expected to continue to expand in the year ahead. This continued economic growth will result in increased revenues and provide a firm base from which we can address the needs and concerns of Yukoners.

Mr. Speaker and hon. Members, as you are aware, the government is currently addressing several major fiscal issues: the Formula Financing Agreement and the Economic Development Agreement, both of which are being renegotiated, and Phase II of the federal government’s tax reform, the proposed Multi-Stage Sales Tax. Each of these issues are of concern because they will directly impact on the fiscal framework within which this government must operate in the years ahead.

The combined expenditures for Capital and Operation and Maintenance, proposed for 1989-90, are $329,382,000. This represents a modest increase of 1.5 percent over the Forecast Estimates for 1988-89. It illustrates our commitment to the practice of sound financial management.

This budget outlines capital expenditures of $103,724,000 which will be used to further develop the infrastructure of this territory. And it presents Operation and Maintenance expenditures of $225,658,000 for programs and government operations.

We will be tabling Supplementary Estimates for the current fiscal year. These estimates will show estimated year-end expenditures of $324,440,000 of which Operation and Maintenance expenditures total $216,114,000 and Capital $108,326,000.

This budget outlines a fiscal plan which will result in a surplus of $695,000 for the 1989-90 fiscal year. These monies will be added to our accumulated surplus to provide for the future needs of Yukoners. At the end of the 1989-90 fiscal year, the accumulated surplus will total $26,262,000.

Total budgetary revenues for the fiscal year 1989-90 are estimated to be $332,199,000, an increase of 8.3 percent over the 1988-89 forecast revenues of $306.8 million. Revenues raised from Yukon sources are expected to increase by 7.8 percent to total $55,207,000 next year.

Continued economic growth in the Yukon will result in increased income tax revenues in 1989-90. Personal income tax revenues are expected to total $21,865,000 next year, which represents a 6.5 percent increase over the forecast 1988-89 level. Corporate income tax revenues are expected to total $5,035,000 for 1989-90, an increase of 10.8 percent over the current year’s forecast.

More effective management of the government’s finances and forecasted higher interest rates for the coming year will result in increased revenue from government investments. Investment income is expected to increase by 18.6 percent in 1989-90 to a total of $4,753,000.

The federal grant is expected to total $194.6 million in 1989-90. This represents an increase of 8.4 percent over the forecast 1988-89 grant of $179.5 million. Notwithstanding this increase, our dependence upon the federal grant has declined since 1985-86. The grant is projected to represent 58.6 percent of our budgetary income in the coming fiscal year. This is three percent lower than the 61.6 percent it represented in 1985-86. The resurgence in our economy over this period has translated into greater revenues from our own sources. Economic growth will continue to lessen our dependence upon the grant in the future.

The recent closing of the United Keno Hill mine will impact on the rate of growth of tax revenues in the coming year. The magnitude of this is not known; however, we feel it will be possible to achieve the revenue levels that I have just mentioned because of our otherwise strong economy. Any reduction in tax revenues will not impact on our total fiscal position because of the protection from such fluctuations that is provided by the formula financing agreement.

Our government is aware of the high tax burden already borne by Yukoners. It is with this in mind that, I am pleased to confirm, this government will not be increasing taxes in 1989-90.

During the coming year, our government is committed to implementing new initiatives and enhancing existing ones to address the major social, economic, and environmental needs of our citizens. These proposals were outlined in the earlier January budget but I would now like to take this opportunity to review again some of the more important ones which are provided for in the Estimates before you.

With respect to child care, we will implement our four-year strategy to greatly enhance child care services in the territory. The Department of Health and Human Resources will allocate an additional $1.4 million in 1989-90 toward the creation of new child care spaces, the development of pre-and-after-school programs, increased support for low income families, better pay and training for child care workers, and provide for the integration of special needs children.

There is much to be done to create a quality, affordable, comprehensive child care system in the Yukon. Our four-year strategy will provide the framework for such a system. We are hopeful the federal government’s proposed national child care strategy will address the Yukon’s requirements and complement our programs.

Child care is only one part of our support for families. Our government will provide an additional $969,000 to initiate and further strengthen a variety of family support programs. A total of $529,000 will be used to initiate a new safe places program to support the establishment of transition homes for the victims of family violence and to strength child abuse services. Family violence, offender and anger management programs will receive $25,000 to provide for a community storefront operation. A total of $65,000 will be allocated for education about family violence and for the establishment of a 24-hour telephone line for sexual assault and family violence victims.

A family support program, which provides intensive support to families and children in their own homes, will receive an additional $134,000. Funds totalling $216,000 will be provided for the continued operation of the Champagne Aishihik child welfare project and the planning and negotiating of other new Indian child welfare delegation projects.

The Department of Health and Human Resources will allocate an additional $847,000 for community health programs in 1989-90. Funding for a demonstration project designed to integrate health and social services in a rural community will total $40,000 in the next year.

Medical travel is an integral element of health care services in the Yukon. It will be enhanced by an additional $159,000. Funds have been allocated to develop an medical boarding service in Whitehorse for rural residents. Design of the planned extended care facility will continue, with additional capital funding of $648,000 in the coming year.

In preparation for the transfer of hospital services from the federal government, we have been reviewing hospital and community health services. These studies will help us negotiate an agreement for the construction of a new regional hospital in Whitehorse and the transfer of hospital responsibility from the federal government to Yukon control.

Access to quality education remains a priority of this government. In 1989-90 the Department of Education will take two significant steps to enhance our education system. The Native Teacher Training Program will receive $400,000 to train Indian people for teaching positions in the Yukon. Special education programs will also be enhanced through the establishment of an optional learning environment for students with special needs and with discipline problems. This program will receive $323,000 in new resources in the coming fiscal year.

With respect to housing, the Yukon Housing Corporation will be expanding its Home Ownership Program to assist Yukoners in meeting their housing needs. The Home Ownership Program, the Joint Venture Program, and the Home Improvement Program will be expanded in 1989-90. In total, the Yukon Housing Corporation is expected to spend $18.8 million in 1989-90, with an estimated $10.6 million of this to be spent in rural areas. These efforts will help alleviate the housing shortage and encourage Yukoners to buy and build homes.

Our government will be increasing the Home Owners Grant in 1989-90. The annual grant will be increased to a maximum of $450, and for senior citizens it will be increased to $500. This additional assistance for our older citizens will enable them to continue to live in their own homes. The Department of Community and Transportation Services will be budgeting an additional $136,000 to provide for these increases in 1989-90.

The Yukon’s economy, as a whole, is on a sound footing, but there are still economic opportunities and benefits to be pursued. The signing this past summer of an agreement in principle with Canada, for a northern energy accord, opens the door to potential economic benefits and opportunities that were not previously available to us. In order to work out the details of an energy agreement and guarantee Yukoners full benefits and opportunities under such an agreement, the Department of Economic Development will utilize $155,000 to prepare for negotiations and to pursue the transfer of oil and gas responsibilities in the coming year.

Our government has developed and initiated a tourism action plan. As part of this plan the Department of Tourism has initiated a tourism promotion agreement with British Columbia and Alaska. A total of $210,000 will be allocated to this program in 1989-90. This new joint marketing effort will build a base for the coming Alaska Highway celebration in 1992 and it will complement our continued participation in the Yukon/Alaska marketing program. The Department of Economic Development will operate two new comprehensive development programs in 1989-90. The Business Development Fund and the Community Development Fund will provide coordinated and centralized development programs with a single application process that will be more easily accessible to the public.

The Business Development Fund will provide a total of $3.3 million to the development of Yukon enterprises in 1989-90. The scope of this fund is greater than the more restrictive programs that it is replacing. The Community Development Fund will provide a total of $5.1 million in 1989-90. The Community Development Fund incorporates community development programs from six different department into one comprehensive fund.

A total of $7.5 million will be allocated for land development in the coming year through the Department of Community and Transportation Services. All types of lands - residential, recreational, commercial and industrial - will be developed throughout the territory in order to provide an adequate supply of developed land to meet the needs of Yukoners.

In 1989-90 the Department of Community and Transportation Services will allocate $47.4 million toward the construction and maintenance of the territory’s highways and roads. Construction expenditures will total $18.3 million, while maintenance expenditures will total $29.1 million. Major activity will take place on the Klondike, Campbell and Dempster Highways in the coming fiscal year.

Yukon airports will be allocated a total of $4.1 million in 1989-90 for  construction and maintenance work. The Haines Junction, Beaver Creek and Teslin airports are targeted for improvements.

During the Yukon 2000 process, the citizens of this territory expressed their strong interest in balancing economic opportunities with the protection of the environment. In response to this, our environmental agenda will be guided by the Yukon Conservation Strategy, which is being developed in consultation with Yukoners. The Department of Renewable Resources will take the first step in developing a coordinated environmental protection program in 1989-90. The Department will allocate $90,000 toward the establishment of an environmental protection unit. This unit will undertake the planning and coordination of the government’s environmental protection programs. The Department of Renewable Resources will also initiate demonstration projects that will bring our conservation strategy to life. Waste recycling projects and soil conservation research are just a few of the projects that could be used to demonstrate our conservation strategy. A total of $100,000 will be devoted to demonstration projects in 1989-90.

The Department of Economic Development will contribute $50,000 in 1989-90 toward a cost-shared study with federal agencies and the placer mining industry on the impact that sediment discharge into streams and rivers has upon fish stocks in the Yukon. This study will provide the information upon which a beneficial coexistence of these two industries can occur. Yukoners are increasingly concerned about the quality of our water supplies. In the year ahead the Department of Community and Transportation Services will provide a total of $3.7 million for major water and sewage projects throughout the territory.

The safe handling and storage of hazardous wastes is a priority of this government. Last year we initiated the work place hazardous material information system to ensure the safe handling of hazardous materials in the Yukon. In the year ahead the Department of Community and Transportation Services will allocate $100,000 toward the development of a state-of-the-art hazardous wastes storage facility, in consultation with local governments and the public. This facility will provide us with a safe, modern temporary storage capability for hazardous wastes.

Through the Department of Renewable Resources and Government Services, a total of $481,000 will be allocated for the transfer of the freshwater fishery program on April 1 of this year. In accordance with the transfer agreement, an estimated $202,000 of this allocation will be funded through an increase to the fishing licence fee schedule. This transfer ensures that Yukoners will obtain improved management of, and benefits from, the freshwater fishery resource. In addition, a Fishery Initiative and Sustainable Harvest Fund will be established. This fund complements the Fisheries transfer. It will receive $50,000 to support community plans for enhancing local fisheries next fiscal year.

In support of the trapping industry, we will devote $150,000 to continue the leghold trap exchange program through the Department of Renewable Resources. This encouragement of humanitarian trapping methods will help promote the fur industry.

The Department of Renewable Resources will also provide $130,000 toward the establishment of a big game management plan in the coming fiscal year. This plan will be designed to provide an integrated, long-term management program for big game in selected areas of the territory.

I have identified only a few of the new and more significant initiatives and programs that are provided for in the combined Estimates I am tabling today. The Ministers will provide the Legislature with the details of their specific initiatives during debate on the Estimates.

I have outlined in this Budget a fiscal plan that illustrates our commitment to responsible financial management and to addressing the needs of the citizens of the Yukon. This budget was prepared in recognition of the new mandate and the endorsement of the citizens of the territory. This budget allocates additional funding for new and existing social, economic and environmental programs. The budget provides for all these and does so without an increase in taxes.

These are goals that, I am certain, all Members of this Legislature will wish to support and, to that end, I commend it to the favourable attention of all hon. Members.

Mr. Phelps: I move that we now adjourn debate.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition that debate be now adjourned.

Motion agreed to

ADDRESS IN REPLY TO THE SPEECH FROM THE THRONE

Motion No. 4

Ms. Hayden: I move

THAT the following Address be presented to the Commissioner of the Yukon:

MAY IT PLEASE THE COMMISSIONER:

We, the Members of the Yukon Legislative Assembly, beg leave to offer our humble thanks for the gracious speech which you have addressed to the House.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Member for Whitehorse South Centre

THAT the following Address be presented to the Commissioner of the Yukon:

MAY IT PLEASE THE COMMISSIONER:

We, the Members of the Yukon Legislative Assembly, beg leave to offer our humble thanks for the gracious speech which you have addressed to the House.

Ms. Hayden: It gives me great pleasure to speak in this House for the first time as the Member for Whitehorse South Centre. It is an honour to be here, and I sincerely thank the people of Whitehorse South Centre for their confidence in electing me. I will do my very best to represent them well.

In the days and weeks to come, there will be many issues that I will bring before you, issues of importance to the people of Whitehorse South Centre. In the short time since being elected, I have already heard numerous concerns from my constituents.

Today I hope you will indulge me and allow me to be a bit nostalgic, as well as look to the years ahead and the concerns of the present. It seems to me that, to use an old cliche, the more things change the more they stay the same.

When I first came to Whitehorse in 1953, this House had five elected members and the Commissioner. The Capital had just moved from Dawson to Whitehorse and this Territorial Council sat on the third floor of the soon-to-be demolished Federal Building. There were only two members from Whitehorse.

What stands out most in my memory of that first year is the critical housing shortage in Whitehorse. People were living in shacks and garages; families were sharing houses and apartments. All my family could find to rent was a little two-room shack on the banks of the Yukon River. Our water came from the river and our sewage facilities were primitive. We had two tiny children to care for.

We were not alone. Many people lived the same way. A crowded squatters’ community called Whisky Flats overflowed the land where Rotary Park and the S.S. Klondike now stand. People scrambled for every available living space and rent, in comparison to income, was very high.

That was 36 years ago and I could be talking about Whitehorse today. Finding decent, affordable housing is still a major problem in Whitehorse, and particularly Whitehorse South Centre where most people live when they first come to Whitehorse, and where many of us retire. I am very pleased to see this problem being addressed by the numerous programs of the Yukon Housing Corporation. I am especially pleased with their new award-winning seniors residence, Closeleigh Manor.

It is my hope that Yukon Housing will continue its programs in all areas of Whitehorse and that the private sector will use some of the incentives provided by Yukon Housing to build new housing units throughout the community, thus relieving some of the pressure on South Centre.

Water and sewer systems were also issues in the 1950s. Some of Whitehorse was served by a system left by the U.S. Army. Many of us had our own wells or had water delivered at one dollar a barrel by the city water truck. If memory serves me correctly, that water came directly from the Yukon River - up stream, of course, for people dumped sewage and garbage in downstream. Thirty-six years later our water and sewer systems are more convenient but not much more environmentally safe. Our water supply is polluted. It is no longer safe to drink from the Yukon River.

It is not an overstatement to say that pure, clean water is one of our most important resources - not only for our use, and our children, and our children’s children’s use, but for the many people who visit our territory expecting an unspoiled wilderness.

There are few things more devastating to a wilderness traveler than to reach an isolated mountain stream only to find it posted with “Water unsafe; do not drink”. I am very pleased that clean water is a very high priority in the Throne Speech and that environmental issues are highlighted by this government. People who live in South Centre, like other Yukoners, want and are entitled to, clean, safe water.

In the 1950s and the many years thereafter, the sewage outfall went directly into the Yukon River. Those of us who were not on the sewer line paid 75 cents twice a week to have a bucket emptied. You were wise not to follow Murph’s honey wagon up the Two Mile Hill on its way to the City Dump.

Today an effective sewage treatment plant is badly needed in Whitehorse and in other communities. Our present systems are certainly much more convenient but not much more environmentally safe than those early years.

I am pleased to see this government’s support of effective sewage treatment plants outlined in the Speech from the Throne. Our technology must keep up with our population growth, and grow we have, although not in every area.

In the 1950s, much of downtown Whitehorse centred on Front Street - First Avenue. The hospital and nurses’ residence were where these Chambers are now. The Post Office stood where Closeleigh Manor now stands. The White Pass Hotel flourished where the Edgewater is now. The White Pass Depot bustled with daily activity. Taylor and Drury and Northern Commercial Company were busy centres of commerce, and a laundromat stood across from the Regina Hotel. Each spring, several paddlewheelers slid down their slips and headed downriver to Dawson.

Much has changed since then, and Front Street is in need of rejuvenation. The waterfront is a natural focus of our community, and its careful development is desirable. It has tremendous tourist potential, but we must not forget the people who live downtown in our urgency to develop the riverfront. There must be a careful, long-range planning process that includes downtown residents and business people.

The urge to profit must not overshadow people’s need to see, walk beside and travel on this river that has, for most of our history, been the very heart of our community.

Downtowners want to ensure that our history is preserved, that today’s needs are recognized and that the future is honoured. Inherent in this is a desire not to further pollute the Yukon River. It is my hope that the proposed Capital City Commission will give South Centre residents, business people and the Downtown Residents Association the opportunity to be part of the planning process.

Long range planning has not been one of our best points. In 1953, dust blew on city streets, where children played. The traffic was lighter, and there were numerous vacant lots. Drury, Taylor, Jeckell, Lowe and Hoge Streets above Fourth Avenue were almost empty space. The area was known as Lot 19. There was a ball park where the Fourth Avenue Residence now stands. It is now all housing. The people of South Centre need breathing space. Streets are paved, but children still play on them. There is nowhere else for them to go. Rotary Park is inaccessible because Second Avenue is too dangerous to cross. There is one small playground and few, if any, empty lots. The only empty space left is the site of the old Jim Light Memorial Arena.

People who do not live in South Centre want to put a building there. What better memorial could there be to a man who cared about kids than to have a safe park and playground named for him? Jim Light did not care about buildings. He cared about the kids who used them - downtown kids, for the most part. I know Jim would approve of the use of the old arena site as a playground for today’s downtown kids. I am very pleased with the considerable emphasis by this government on the needs and care of children, and a safe place to play is important for a child’s wellbeing and their parents’ peace of mind.

In addition, I cannot emphasize too strongly how pleased I am with this government’s child care strategy, as well as its support program for families. There are two child care centres and three family day homes in South Centre and, still, there are insufficient spaces available. Work play centres, infant care and after-school care are desperately needed. Salary increases for workers are also a necessity.

We have come a long way in providing adequate child care, as well as support programs for individuals and families, and we still have a long way to go to meet the needs of many families, including additional safe places for victims of family violence, and mandatory reporting of child abuse. Our ultimate goal must be the elimination of family violence and sexual abuse, in all of its forms.

I am encouraged by this government’s emphasis on prevention, social programs, and job creation. Good jobs and decent working conditions are important to Whitehorse South Centre, too.

The character of Whitehorse South Centre continues to change. In the early 1950s, much of the non-native community was transient and only a few people chose to live out their lives in Whitehorse. Many more make that choice now, and most of them live in South Centre. I am proud of the programs this government has introduced for older Yukoners, people who have always been independent and who, through the many health and support systems provided by this government, can continue to be self-sufficient.

I am pleased to see the devolution of health as a priority because health issues are important to the residents of South Centre. I believe that the future for older Yukoners under this government looks bright indeed.

Times change, and it is to be hoped that we all change and grow with them. We have much to learn from other parts of the world. Yet, we must maintain our own Yukon priorities: clean air, clean water, a decent place to live, a safe, caring place for our children, respect and honour for our elders and oldtimers, and a community that cares about, and involves its people, in decisions that affect them. I believe that that is not too much to ask for the people for South Centre, and for all Yukoners.

Thank you.

Applause

Mr. Devries: I move that debate be now adjourned.

Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Member for Watson Lake that debate be now adjourned.

Motion agreed to

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I move that the House do now adjourn.

Speaker: It has been moved that the House do now adjourn.

Motion agreed to

Speaker: The House now stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. Monday next.

The House adjourned at 2:52 p.m.