Speaker:   I will now call the House to order. We will proceed at this time with prayers.

Speaker:   It gives me great pleasure to announce the following students who will be serving the House as legislative pages for the 2003 fall sitting. They are Paul Banks, Ben Power, Charlotte Ratcliff, Kieran Slobodin and Mark Young from Vanier Catholic Secondary School and Lisa Beauchemin, Robyn Farrow and Nathan Walker from Porter Creek Secondary School.

Today we have with us Ben Power and Nathan Walker. I would ask members to welcome them to the House at this time.

Speaker: Also, the Chair wishes to inform the House of changes that have been made to the Order Paper: Motion No. 88, standing in the name of the Minister of Health and Social Services, Motions No. 23, 45 and 58, standing in the name of the Member for Porter Creek South, and Motions No. 35 and 72, standing in the name of the Member for Lake Laberge, have been removed from the Order Paper, as they are now outdated.

Speaker:   We’ll proceed at this time with the Order Paper.

Tributes.

Introduction of visitors.

Mr. Hardy:   I would like to acknowledge the large number of Yukon government employees who have taken unpaid leave of absence and who have joined us in the public gallery and, at the same time, introduce the government to some of the dedicated, hard-working people who work for them and the Yukon public, day after day, week after week, year after year.

I ask all MLAs to join me in welcoming them.

Speaker:   Any other introduction of visitors? Are there any returns or documents for tabling?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:  I have for tabling the public accounts of the Government of Yukon for the year ending March 31, 2003.

Speaker:   Are there any further returns or documents for tabling?

Are there any reports of committees?

Are there any petitions?

Are there any bills to be introduced?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   I move that Bill No. 6, entitled Fourth Appropriation Act, 2002-03, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. Premier that Bill No. 6, entitled Fourth Appropriation Act, 2002- 03, be now introduced and read a first time.

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   I move that Bill No. 37, entitled Statistics Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. Premier that Bill No. 37, entitled Statistics Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Hon. Mr. Hart:   I move that Bill No. 35, entitled Act to Amend the Public Printing Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Highways and Public Works that Bill No. 35, entitled Act to Amend the Public Printing Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Hon. Mr. Hart:   I move that Bill No. 38, entitled Act to Amend the Employment Standards Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Highways and Public Works that Bill No. 38, entitled Act to Amend the Employment Standards Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Hon. Mr. Hart:   I move that Bill No. 40, entitled Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. Minister of Highways and Public Works that Bill No. 40, entitled Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:   Are there any further bills for introduction?

Are there any notices of motion?

Mr. McRobb:   Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT this House urges the Minister of Economic Development to correct the serious flaws in his proposal to develop a new Yukon economic strategy due to his failure to recognize the economic contributions made by labour, municipal governments, Yukon College, members of the environmental community and other public interest groups.

Mr. Hardy:   I give notice of the following motion:

THAT this House call upon the Premier to establish an independent board of inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act into various matters related to the Yukon government’s investigation of computer use by government employees; and that these matters include the Premier’s own actions throughout the investigation process.

Speaker:   Are there any other notices of motion?

Are there any statements by ministers?

This then brings us to Question Period.

Mr. Hardy:   This is a question for the Premier, and I’ll keep it very, very short, since working people are here to hear some of the responses — hopefully responses that are satisfactory.

When and how was the Premier first informed that his deputy ministers in the Public Service Commission would be conducting an investigation into computer use by government workers?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to be back in the House and to be the first out of the chute on this very important topic, and I can assure the member opposite that everything that was related to the investigation was done in a very professional manner.

I also want to state for the House today, Mr. Speaker, that this government values every employee and has the utmost respect for every staff member.

Mr. Hardy:   Over the last while, there has been a lot of debate around who is actually the leader of the Yukon Party, and it is becoming very obvious. My question was directed to the Premier and to the leader of the Yukon Party. So I expect him to try to answer this one.

At the time the Premier was informed about the situation that led to the investigation, what direction or authorization did he give to the deputy ministers or the Public Service Commissioner about how the investigation should be conducted?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Again, I will say that this investigation was dealt with in the most respectful manner possible and that the direction given to the Public Service Commission was very, very clear — that it is to be dealt with in a very highly respectful, confidential manner — and that the bar was set at a very high standard so that there would be minimal impact on the workforce.

Mr. Hardy:   Well, we’re starting this session off really great, aren’t we? Once again, no answer to the question. This investigation has had a very serious impact on approximately 4,000 hard-working Yukon people and their families. These workers have a right to expect that their employer, the Yukon government, will treat them with dignity and respect. We have been told repeatedly of the government’s responsibility to maintain a workplace free from harassment. That is an excellent goal, Mr. Speaker, and we support that.

What steps did the Premier take to ensure that the investigation itself was free of any trace of harassment and intimidation?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   At this point in time, I would like to state that, according to sources that I’ve had opportunity to read over the summer, it’s good to see that the member opposite has finally been found and that he isn’t missing, like the report said, and that this government has been dealing with this issue on a daily basis, and that, of course, first and foremost, we acknowledge that this had an impact on all of the employees of the government. Mr. Speaker, we must also acknowledge that it was every employee.

Being a traditional person, I believe in traditional ways, the traditional ways of seeking understanding. And that’s not picking out bits and pieces of the picture, but understanding the big picture, Mr. Speaker — and that both people were involved in this investigation and that there was also staff that were not involved in this investigation.

Mr. Speaker, this government has taken every action possible to ensure that we do not paint every employee with the same brush and that the confidentiality was of the utmost importance.

Mr. Hardy:   Somewhere in this whole investigation there is supposed to be a minister responsible for the Public Service Commission. Part of that minister’s responsibility is to make sure government employees are treated properly by their employer, but this very same minister has also said that he doesn’t know what is happening in this investigation but he supports it.

My question is for the Premier. Who briefed the Premier on the progress of this investigation? Was it the minister — the one who is responding now — the Public Service Commissioner or members of his political staff? How often did these briefings take place? Can I get an answer to these questions, Mr. Speaker?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Again, I will repeat myself — that this investigation was handled by the Public Service Commission. It was of grave importance that this be at arm’s length from the political staff.

Mr. Hardy:   I was wondering if the Premier was in this room.

It quickly became evident that this thing was spiralling out of control. In fact, the Premier’s political colleagues were hearing so much about it on the doorstep this summer that they were cancelling their plans to canvas their constituents.

What steps did the Premier take to prevent this investigation from having the devastating impact on employee morale and productivity that it has had and continues to have?

Speaker:   Before the minister answers I would like to remind members of the gallery that we are delighted to have you here but we would respectfully ask you not to participate, please.

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   This investigation spiralled out of control for one reason. It is the belief, to the best of my knowledge, that it was probably the opposition members who spiralled it out of control.

This government has done the best possible job to keep this in order. And the process that accomplished this was the simple fact that it was kept as a very highly confidential investigation.

Mr. Hardy:   So now I am supposed to assume that the whole investigation was created by the opposition, was conducted by the opposition and continues to be acted upon by the opposition because, by far, the government itself — the people who are elected over there, the people who are supposed to be responding — is not present. They are not present in this territory and they are not responding to the questions we are asking.

This has been a political nightmare for the Premier and his colleagues, and we recognize that. It has been an administrative nightmare for the government, and it has been a personal nightmare for the people who work for this government and for their families.

The Premier and the minister have consistently tried, throughout this, to hide behind other people and blame other people. But they can’t hide in here.

What is the true story here? Did the Premier do his job and provide leadership and guidance on this very sensitive matter? Or did he simply hand over the reins of responsibility to the deputy ministers and the Public Service Commissioner? People want to know. They want to know throughout the Yukon and in every community: who is in charge of this government?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Mr. Speaker, once again, I will repeat what I have said before. This was a personnel issue, and that is where it belongs — with the personnel department. I think that the government of the day did its job very well by leaving it with the Public Service Commission.

Ms. Duncan:   Mr. Speaker, the integrity of the government has been questioned repeatedly during their first year. There are two cabinet ministers who owe Yukoners hundreds of thousands of dollars; we have a Justice minister who overruled two justices of the peace — part of our independent judicial system. The Minister of the Environment, from his office, has attempted to influence another level of government as the MLA.

My question is for the Minister of the Environment. On June 5, 2003, the Member for Porter Creek North, the Minister of the Environment, wrote a letter on Yukon Legislature letterhead to the City of Whitehorse opposing the subdivision of a property adjacent to his own home. It appears the minister wrote the letter to further his own private interest — in other words, the value of his house.

When this issue was raised, the MLA for Porter Creek North, the Minister of the Environment, said he would be happy to refer it to the Conflicts Commissioner. Can the minister now table the written response he received from the Conflicts Commissioner on this issue?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   To correct the member opposite, my property is not adjacent, but it is certainly on Versluce Meadows. It was written to express concern of a number of residents of Porter Creek North. It was written to express concerns of a number of people from Porter Creek Centre in the absence of the MLA for Porter Creek Centre, when that timeline occurred.

The matter certainly has been presented to and resolved by the Conflicts Commissioner. We are still in some discussion with him on some collateral issues.

Ms. Duncan:   Mr. Speaker, the Member for Porter Creek North, the Minister of the Environment, has said that the matter has been raised with the Conflicts Commissioner.

The minister has, in fact, dragged his heels on this issue over the entire summer. I raised this issue in mid-July. In August, I wrote and asked the member opposite for a copy of his letter to the Conflicts Commissioner. He has not provided that to me, nor has he responded to any telephone calls asking for that letter. The member has stood on his feet and said the matter has been raised. Will he provide the House with a copy of his letter to the Conflicts Commissioner today?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   Yes, there has been some correspondence. I can appreciate the member opposite’s frustration with the slow movings of government sometimes and the slow movings of writing letters. I’ve experienced that frustration myself in letters that I’ve written to the member opposite concerning tire regulations and that went unanswered and remain unanswered to this day. The matter is well in hand. The matter has been discussed and ruled on by the Conflicts Commissioner, who sees no conflict.

Ms. Duncan:   The member opposite has said that he has written. He has said publicly that he would be happy to raise this with the Conflicts Commissioner. He now says that he has done that. Well, Mr. Speaker, a verbal commitment from this minister is just not good enough, as witnessed by his dealings with the Fish and Wildlife Management Board. Yukoners are looking for a written confirmation from the Conflicts Commissioner that this member has been cleared. The Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act calls upon us to do the right thing — right. The member has made a public commitment that he would do that. Will he now do the right thing and table that correspondence with the Conflicts Commissioner — make it public?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   Again, there is some ongoing correspondence, and I’d certainly be happy to table it at that point, but I do want to compliment the member opposite for asking the question. As a resident of Porter Creek North and a constituent of mine, Porter Creek North does not include the Versluce Meadows. She represents Porter Creek South, which does not include Versluce Meadows.

I wrote on behalf of the Member for Porter Creek Centre, because we tend to work as a team, but I do note that the member opposite is attending the Porter Creek Community Association meetings and is helping that association in trying to save the integrity of the Versluce Meadows, which does not encompass her riding or the area she represents.

Perhaps the member opposite is starting to understand that working as a team is something that is beneficial to all — obviously a new concept, Mr. Speaker.

Mrs. Peter:   I have a question for the minister responsible for the Women’s Directorate. What steps did the minister take to ensure that female employees of the Yukon government, in Whitehorse and in rural communities, would not be subjected to an atmosphere of harassment, intimidation and isolation during the computer use investigation?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I would like to reassure the member opposite that every employee within the Yukon government is of value. I can assure the member opposite that this government has the utmost respect for all employees, male and female.

Mrs. Peter:   Mr. Speaker, my question was for the minister responsible for the Women’s Directorate. The Women’s Directorate exists to make life fairer for women, both inside government and in the community. The minister has a very serious responsibility in this regard.

What resources has the minister made available to the Women’s Directorate to help female employees and female partners of government employees, to deal with the enormous stress from the computer use investigation?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   This question from the member opposite may have been directed to the Premier; however, it is a personnel issue that has been brought into this discussion and, being the minister responsible for the Public Service Commission, I feel obligated to answer these questions.

I can assure the member opposite that there is no differential treatment of either male or female staff. And I certainly hope that this government will continue representing every employee. I don’t believe that this investigation only had some bearing on the females. It had bearing on males also.

Mrs. Peter:   Many families have been feeling the impact of this investigation. I am especially concerned about the women and children in rural Yukon who don’t have the same kind of access to support services that are available in Whitehorse.

The regional women’s committee of the Public Service Alliance has expressed many of these concerns to the minister responsible for the Women’s Directorate in writing and in person.

Why has the minister failed to address the concerns that this committee, which represents female government workers, brought to his attention and when does he intend to do this?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I would like to assure the member opposite that this government has the utmost respect for the women who work for this government, and I can assure the member opposite that this investigation probably did have impacts on some of the staff. However, Mr. Speaker, when we talk about understanding the big picture, we must also understand that the staff from the Public Service Commission also had a lot of stress on them. I commend the Public Service Commission staff for all the hard work that they had to go through, and I also commend the Public Service Commission staff for having to go through this investigation. I don’t believe it was a pleasant thing for either side.

I can assure the member opposite that the Public Service Commission is concerned and will provide the necessary avenues and processes for the individual worker to seek the help that they may need with regard to this investigation.

Mr. McRobb:   Well, it appears the rumours of the Cabinet shuffle were true, Mr. Speaker. But I think things are a little lopsided. They might want to revisit this a little later on. I’m not even sure if I have to address the question. I think we’ll get the minister responsible for the Public Service Commission up answering this one.

Smaller communities in rural Yukon have limited resources and limited personnel capacity to provide government services. During the computer use investigation, some government workers from rural Yukon were required to take time away from their jobs to attend interviews and disciplinary hearings in Whitehorse.

We need to get some answers from the minister. Can he now tell this House how many person hours of work were involved for employees outside Whitehorse to deal with these matters, and what is the total of travel and other related costs?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   It’s good to note that the member opposite has been around the territory throughout the summer. I can say to the member opposite that, for employees in the outlying communities who had to attend any interviews within the City of Whitehorse, it was the personal choice of the individual. Therefore, this government cannot be held accountable for someone having to travel through the territory or into the city for their own actions.

Mr. McRobb:   I feel another Cabinet shuffle coming tomorrow maybe.

In a small community, the minister must understand that the absence of a government worker for a day or two is easily noticed by other people in the community. What steps did he take to protect the privacy of rural employees who had to attend interviews or disciplinary hearings in Whitehorse?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Again, I would like to remind the member opposite that this investigation was strictly a personnel matter and it was handled by the Public Service Commission.

Mr. McRobb:   The minister raises a good point — how this matter is being handled. We heard from the Premier all summer. At no time did we hear from the minister responsible for the Public Service Commission on this matter. We all wondered where he was on this matter. Now, all of a sudden, the tables have been turned. Questions were addressed to the Premier and now, all of a sudden, it’s the minister responsible for the Public Service Commission. So, what is going on?

In exceptional circumstances in rural Yukon the delivery of services can be affected because someone is called away from his or her job. Either the job doesn’t get done or somebody else does it.

Can the minister tell us now what the total costs to this government were to cover the duties of rural employees when they were absent because of the computer use investigation?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I do not have the exact amount for rural costs, but I could probably supply that information to the member opposite at a later date.

Mr. Cardiff:   I have a simple question for the Minister of Community Services today. What connection existed between the computer use investigation and the firing of the senior manager for community affairs?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I thank the member opposite for the question. However, again, I will restate my position that this, again, was a personnel issue and it cannot be discussed on the floor of this Legislature.

Mr. Cardiff:   Well, Mr. Speaker, this is about government policy and about the fair treatment of employees. That’s what it’s about, and this is not going to go away.

Will the minister at least provide some sort of assurance to this House that the individual was not fired for sending or receiving inappropriate emails?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Again, it is the position of this government that we do protect the confidentiality of any personnel issue, and we will not discuss it on the floor of this Legislature.

Mr. Fairclough:  My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. It is a well-documented fact that stress is one of the most important factors contributing to ill health — stress at home, stress at school or on the job, stress in one’s social life. I know the minister likes to micromanage the department and wants to answer this question, versus the minister responsible for the Public Service Commission.

So will the minister provide an estimate of how much it has cost the health system so far to deal with the stress-related illness among Yukon government employees, or their families, as a result of the computer use investigation? Will the minister do that?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   Mr. Speaker, I would thank the members opposite for giving me a busy day. Once again, I want to say to the member opposite that these are personnel issues; we cannot be giving out any information that has to do with personnel issues.

Mr. Fairclough:   I was hoping that the minister responsible for Health would answer this question. I was talking about what it cost for this investigation in the health system; it is not a personnel question, so I ask the member opposite to listen carefully to the questions.

For many months now, the clinical psychologist position in mental health services has been vacant. At the same time, the computer use investigation has increased stress and anxiety among government workers and their families. So what impact has this investigation had on the waiting times for access to mental health services in the Yukon?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I thank the member opposite for the question. Again, I have to say to the member opposite that this government does not get involved with personnel issues. This government does not sit down and take note of everybody who walks into a private clinic or into a government-run operation to seek help. Confidentiality is of the utmost importance here, Mr. Speaker, and this government will continue to maintain that high standard of confidentiality.

Mr. Fairclough:   If the minister is going to answer all the questions from members on this side of the House, I ask that he pay close attention to the question that’s being asked, and perhaps be briefed by other departments as to exactly what the impacts of the investigation are. As a rural MLA, I share the same concerns my colleagues have about the particular impact of this investigation on smaller communities.

So what has the minister done to ensure that people in small Yukon communities, who have been affected and are still being affected by the computer use investigation, have access to health services they need? I’m sure the Minister of Health can answer this question.

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I would just like to say at this time that the investigation was not singled out in any specific community. It was an overall investigation.

I am quite positive, Mr. Speaker, that the Public Service Commission has and will continue to offer assistance to any employee who has been affected mentally by this investigation.

And again, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that this government has the utmost respect for all employees and that we will continue to look after the best interests of the employees.

Ms. Duncan:   Mr. Speaker, the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act said members and ministers must not make representations to further their own interests. I believe that the Minister of the Environment, the MLA for Porter Creek North, by writing to the municipal government with respect to a land application for subdivision, is writing to further his own public interest.

The Member for Porter Creek North has said publicly that he would contact the Conflicts Commissioner, and he has a public responsibility to explain to Yukoners why he has not lived up to that commitment. A verbal commitment is not good enough.

The member has said he has made the contact.

Will the member make the commitment on the floor of the House today that he will provide that correspondence with the Conflicts Commissioner? And when did he write the Conflicts Commissioner?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   For the record, I would like to note that when the member opposite called a press conference, I was in touch with the Conflicts Commissioner the next morning.

It should also be noted that her statements at the time of her press conference were that she would give me the time to deal with the Conflicts Commissioner. When I spoke with him the next morning, I found that she had already called him before me, contrary to what she had said publicly.

So I have to conclude, Mr. Speaker — also in light of the fact that she has since seen fit to join a team approach to save her resource there — that perhaps her interest here is not much other than pure politics.

Ms. Duncan:   The fact of the matter is this is the Yukon Legislative Assembly. It’s a political arena. The member opposite has a responsibility to the public — a responsibility with respect to the legislation and a responsibility with respect to his public commitments. He publicly said in July that he would contact the Conflicts Commissioner. He has verbally said that. He has provided no written documentation on this matter. He has dragged his heels on this issue over the entire summer.

This is an important issue. Will the member opposite commit today that he will provide the written exchange with the Conflicts Commissioner? Will he provide that to members of this Legislature? Will he provide it? When will he provide it? Today?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   Certainly, I did contact the Conflicts Commissioner and made some interesting discoveries as well. The letter in question was time stamped when it was turned into City Hall. The copy of the letter that was provided at the time of the press conference, or immediately thereafter, to the Conflicts Commissioner did not have a time stamp on it. It was intercepted somewhere between the front desk and the time stamp, it would appear, and provided to the member opposite.

So, again, I have to wonder what the motives are here, and certainly not to cast aspersions on motives, one has to assume that the motives are less than pure on the other side.

There is continuing —

Some Hon. Member:   Point of order.

Speaker:   Before the point of order, would the member retract that statement please.

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   I would be happy to retract that, Mr. Speaker. I was simply giving some degree of speculation on that, but I don’t want to cast aspersions. It’s just that I do wonder, at times. I said I would contact the commissioner, and I did, and I do object to the member opposite hinting that perhaps I did not, when she knows very well that I did.

When the continuing correspondence and dealings on a collateral matter — and a very important matter — conclude, I would be happy to address the matter further.

Ms. Duncan:   Mr. Speaker, a verbal commitment from this minister is just not good enough. It isn’t. Witness the dealings over the summer with the Fish and Wildlife Management Board — the member has a public responsibility to write to the Conflicts Commissioner on this particular issue — the letter and the subject of Versluce Meadows. Will the minister table that letter? When did he write it? Will he provide it? Will he provide the members of the Legislature with the evidence that he has, indeed, complied with the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act that says that members and ministers must not — it’s not "shall" and it’s not "may" — must not make representations that further their own private interests.

Will the member opposite provide the documentation to this House, in written form, that he has complied with that part of the legislation with respect to that letter? Will he do that?

Hon. Mr. Kenyon:   Certainly when the correspondence is complete, then that is the time to do that. I do wonder what the member opposite is getting to with the reference to the Fish and Wildlife Management Board, a duly constituted authority that acts in an advisory capacity, and I value its advice very very much.

Surely the member opposite does not have a reading of the Umbrella Final Agreement that that board controls. But we do very much value their input and will continue to do so.

Mr. Speaker, the collateral matter, which I again refer to, is that the letter was written also on behalf of Porter Creek Centre in a collaborative effort since the relevant member was away. It was written on Legislative Assembly letterhead, and it was signed "MLA, Porter Creek North".

The collateral discussion centres around the fact that most reasonably astute people would assume that being on letterhead, signed with that position, was certainly full disclosure, and it was certainly working in a team effort. And again I commend the member opposite, who does not live in a bordering riding and does not represent a bordering riding, who has now chosen to get involved with saving the Versluce Meadows — a rare form and show of teamwork, and we certainly welcome that participation.

Speaker:   The time for Question Period has now elapsed. We will proceed to Orders of the Day.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I move that the House do now adjourn.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the hon. government House leader that the House do now adjourn.

Speaker:   The House stands adjourned until 1:00 p.m. Monday.

03-1-45

Public Accounts of the Government of Yukon for the year ended March 31, 2003 (Fentie)