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Speaker: <=
/span>I
will now call the House to order. We will proceed at this time with prayers=
.
Prayers
DAILY ROUTINE
Speaker: =
; We will proceed at this time with the Ord=
er Paper.
Tributes.
TRI= BUTES
In remembrance of Gordon=
and
Bonnie Cameron
Speaker: Members and guests, it is my pleasure on
behalf of the House to pay tribute to two promine=
nt
Yukoners of years past. Gordon Cameron, a former Commissioner of the
Gordon Cameron arrived in the
Over the next 16 years Gordon’= ;s aviation career took many twists and turns, culminating in his holding one = of the highest level air engineer’s licences in the country, as well as = logging hundreds of hours of bushflying experience.
Over that same period, Gordon and B=
onnie
were very immersed in the betterment of their
community. Gordon served two terms on Whitehorse City Council as an alderma=
n,
and one term as the second Mayor of Whitehorse. He was also active in the W=
hitehorse
Chamber of Commerce, the Chamber of Mines, the Yukon Transportation
Association, Yukon Order of Pioneers, the Masonic Lodge, the Midnight Sun P=
ipe
Band and the Whitehorse Kiwanis Club. As a sideline from aviation, he also
established the Volkswagen agency for the
Bonnie was always busy with the tas=
ks of
being a supportive and devoted homemaker for Gordon and their four sons, but
she still found time to be an active member of the Whitehorse Drama Club an=
d a
strong booster of the Alaska Music Trail. As the second “First
Lady” of
And of course, present at all times=
was
Gordon’s famous and indomitable sense of humour, which was usually at=
the
forefront, whether he was dealing with a citizen irate over a missed garbage
pick-up, or escorting the Queen along
In May of 1962, Gordon was appointed
Commissioner of the
In the spring of 1966, Gordon resig=
ned from
the one and only government job he ever had and returned to private enterpr=
ise.
He and Bonnie moved to
Of course, Bonnie hosted as require= d. She also immersed herself in the sport of curling, as a player in two leagues, = as well as ardently supporting “her” Edmonton Eskimos.
Throughout his life, Gordon indulge=
d in his
hobbies of model airplanes and model railroading, but his greatest recreati=
onal
passion was boating. For over 40 years he bought, swapped, built, traded, a=
nd
restored dozens of boats, his ultimate nautical achievement being the
restoration of the historic
As a break from his white-collar jo=
b in
On Sunday, October 17, the Cameron =
family
is holding a celebration of life for Bonnie and Gordon at the
I’d like=
you to
join me in welcoming sons, Bob and Hunter, daughters-in-law, Lois and Carol,
and grandsons, Kyle and Bryan, who are in the gallery today. Thank you for
coming.
Applause
Speaker: Are there any further tributes?
In recognition of Breast Cancer Awareness Month
Hon. Mr. Hart: <=
/span>I
rise on behalf of the government, the Independent member and the NDP to pay
tribute to Breast Cancer Awareness Month. I stand here before you because I
have a dream. I have a dream of a day when no women will feel terror at dis=
covering
a lump in her breast. I dream of a day when breast cancer no longer steals =
our
wives, sisters, mothers or daughters from us. I dream of a day when we no
longer need a Breast Cancer Awareness Month. According to the Canadian Canc=
er
Society, breast cancer is the most common cancer among Canadian women.
[Member spo=
ke in
French.]
The society es=
timates
that over 23,000 women will be diagnosed with cancer this year and that over
5,000 women will die from it. Men are not immune either; almost 200 Canadian
men will be diagnosed, and 50 will die. Here at home, 24
[Member spo=
ke in
French.]
Science is fig=
hting
back and breast cancer rates have been declining since the mid-1980s. Accor=
ding
to the Canadian Cancer Society, the five-year survival rate has improved by
nearly five percent over the past 10 years. The five year survival rate for
women aged 40 to 79 is now almost 90 percent, an=
d over
80 percent of the women are under 40. The facts are cause for hope and
celebration and that’s why I am pleased to stand here and congratulate
all the men, women and children who are working so hard to raise funds for
cancer research and to support women with breast cancer.
[Member spo=
ke in
French.]
Their work mak=
es a
huge difference. As in previous years, Whitehorse volunteers have rallied
together to organize Mardi Bra this Saturday, a fun evening in support of
Karen’s Fund, which provides financial support to women with breast
cancer. It features a dance and auctions and, for the first time, it is ope=
n to
men. I encourage all my colleagues in the House to buy a ticket and take pa=
rt
this year.
As well, the h=
ealth
promotion unit has organized a women’s night out, which features a Pa=
tti Flather play about the search for the perfect bra, a =
photo exhibit
of real women, real breasts and a question-and-answer session to find out m=
ore
about what women can do to take an active role in their breast health. These
“getting to know your girls” nights have taken place in four =
span>
I would like to
recognize the
Finally, Mr. S=
peaker,
I want to say thank you to all those who work so hard to beat cancer. Their
commitment, passion and accomplishments give me hope that one day cancer wi=
ll
be one thing of the past.
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker. Merci, M. le Président.
Mr. Mitchell:
Breast cancer =
is the
most commonly diagnosed cancer in women in Canada
I’m sure=
each
and every one of us has been touched, in some way, by the terrible impact of
this disease on a loved one, a friend, a colleague. Early detection means
finding a cancer or a pre-cancerous condition at an early stage. Early dete=
ction
does not necessarily prevent cancer, but in most cases, finding cancer early
increases the chances of successful treatment and a better outcome.
This year in Y=
ukon, as
mentioned by the minister, our Whitehorse firefighters, in conjunction with=
the
International Association of Firefighters, have kicked off a new campaign
called, “Care Enough to Wear Pink,” aimed at raising awareness =
and
funds for breast cancer. Our firefighters, some of whom are with us in the
gallery today, will all be wearing pink t-shirts on the job during the mont=
h of
October, and the pink t-shirts are on sale at both the city fire halls. Fun=
ds raised
locally from the sale of t-shirts will go to Karen’s Fund, which was =
set
up to provide financial assistance for Yukoners with breast cancer to provi=
de
financial assistance throughout their cancer journey.
The fourth ann=
ual
Mardi Bra Costume Party, as noted, is being held Saturday, October 16, and =
is
also a fundraising event to support women with breast cancer. This year the
event will be co-ed, as a diagnosis of breast cancer also affects the men in
our lives. All funds raised will go to Karen’s Fund.
Fighting breas=
t cancer
is a difficult battle. The women and their families should not have to worry
about money.
In
We give a hear=
tfelt
thank you to the many volunteers, fundraisers, sponsors and supporters who =
help
in the fight against breast cancer. Your generosity and the giving of your =
time
to such a worthy cause is how we can make cancer history. None of us can re=
st
easy or relax in our fight against cancer until we achieve victory.
In recognition of the Be the Change movement
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
<=
/span>I
rise today to honour our young leaders in the Be=
the
Change movement and their wonderful work over the past week and in the past=
six
years. I’d also like to honour our leaders in the
There was a =
8220;sea
of pink” campaign in which students all wore pink in protest against
bullying. The annual week-long campaign of kindness involves commitments to=
do
an act of kindness every day based on themes.
There was a = 8220;pay it forward” campaign in which the movie was screened and students pas= sed “pay it forward” cards when they performed an act of kindness.<= o:p>
All these smal=
l steps
put together create positive change for the people of the community, and th=
ey
are even more powerful for the people who perform them.
The
Be the Change movemen=
t started
in
Our adult and =
youth
leaders of the Be the Change movement are truly =
making
a difference.
Mr. Speaker, w=
e are joined
today in the gallery by Ms. K.S.P., some of the coordinators and many of the
students involved in the movement. Please join me in welcoming them.
Applause
In recognition of International Day for the Eradica= tion of Poverty
Mr. Cardiff: I rise on behalf of the NDP
caucus and other caucuses as well, if they so choose, to pay tribute to Int=
ernational
Day for the Eradication of Poverty, which is marked on October 17, this Sun=
day.
The
Commissioner’s proclamation announcing this as Poverty and Homelessne=
ss
Action Week admits that poverty and homelessness is prevalent in the
What we need t=
o take
from this week’s proclamation is the word “action” that is
part of the proclamation. It is time to be serious, to take sincere measure=
s to
actually alleviate the conditions that cause poverty and homelessness, not =
just
to talk about it and to study it some more, not just to make proclamations =
and
speeches.
The amount of =
poverty
in
Because of the=
cost of
childcare responsibilities and transportation, women are often marginalized=
by
having to stay home and are not able to attend training, full-time work or =
social
events that would broaden their lives. The amount of social housing availab=
le
at reasonable rent right now is close to nothing, causing people to have to
live on the streets.
All of these
conditions have tremendously negative effects on our children’s health
and welfare. The cycle of poverty, violence, addictions and crime is thus
perpetuated through generations. It costs
The financial
investment made by taxpayers in social programs, in the belief that it will
change poverty and homelessness, is almost totally wasted. Patchwork progra=
ms
of government and non-government organizations attempting to alleviate pove=
rty
are not successful enough. If they were, we wouldn’t be bringing pove=
rty
and homelessness to everyone’s attention this week. We wouldn’t=
be
spending hundreds of thousands of dollars talking about social inclusion.
Many of these =
programs
blame the victims of our economic system, rather than taking the courage to
change things.
Charities such= as food banks and soup kitchens are symbols of our society’s failure. They don’t change things; they keep the poor where they are. All they real= ly do is make us, here, who do the giving, feel a little better. They make us = feel like we’re doing something, but we’re not solving the problem.<= o:p>
One of the main
threads that can be traced through all the conditions of poverty is the lac=
k of
literacy. This week we were asked in the House to celebrate the high rate of
literacy in the Whitehorse
Poverty is int=
ertwined
with low literacy levels. If we are to act honestly on the very serious
problems of poverty, we must invest in education at the levels where it is
needed the most. We must invest in adults who are not able to participate i=
n society
because of conditions beyond their capacity to change. One of the most
important ways to act on poverty and the lack of literacy is to ensure that=
we
have a truly lifelong education system that includes everyone. To eradicate
poverty, we need to understand that it is a condition of our capitalist eco=
nomy
that needs transforming.
Thank you.
Mr. Mitchell:
In
Today during P=
overty
and Homelessness Action Week, Whitehorse Connects is providing services,
including haircuts, massage, legal advice from lawyers and health advice fr=
om
nurses, food and clothing, all day long at the Old Fire Hall. All these ser=
vices
are being provided by volunteers who are giving of their time to assist fel=
low
Yukoners.
Children growi=
ng up in
poverty and social exclusion are less likely to do well in school, enjoy go=
od
health or stay out of trouble. They may find it difficult to get work and
struggle to find their place in society. By eradicating poverty, we can cre=
ate
true equality.
This day is an
opportunity to acknowledge the struggle and efforts of those living in pove=
rty
and to make the voice of the poor heard. We go about our daily lives, not
realizing how poor people are living their lives and how difficult life bec=
omes
when they are unable to get the basic needs of life.
There is extre=
me
poverty in the world, particularly in underdeveloped countries, but we must
also realize there is poverty and hardship in our own developed country. Ma=
ny
Canadians are jobless or homeless, or live below the poverty line. The rece=
nt
economic crisis has impacted the situation.
Older people, =
many of
whom live on small pensions, are forced to help out their children and
grandchildren when their children lose their jobs. The reverse problem also=
occurs
when younger people must help out parents who are struggling to make ends m=
eet
on small pensions. This situation is putting ever more people at risk of
poverty.
Poverty and
homelessness is perhaps the challenge of the world today. We must undertake=
a
truly collective anti-poverty effort that will lift living standards and
alleviate human suffering. This challenge cannot remain a task for the few;=
it
must become a calling for the many.
We salute the =
many
volunteers, supporters and non-profit organizations that offer help and hop=
e to
those in need. We urge everyone to join the struggle. Together we can make =
real
and sufficient progress toward the end of poverty. Thank you.
Speaker: Are there any further tributes?
Introduction
of visitors.
INT=
RODUCTION
OF VISITORS
Hon. Mr. Hart: Unfortunately, it took a little whi=
le for
tributes to take place, so some of my guests have left, but I would like
members of the House to help me recognize members from the Whitehorse
Firefighters Association, local 2217, who are donating their time and effor=
t to
bring awareness to breast cancer and also to generate donations to support
Karen’s Fund. We have two members here from the local firefighters in=
the
gallery with us today.
Applause
Speaker: Are there further introductions?
Speaker’s statement
Speaker: Prior to r=
eturns
or documents for tabling, the Chair will make a statement about events
yesterday that occurred during tabling of returns and documents.
At that time, =
the
minister responsible for Yukon Housing Corporation sent to the Table a box =
of
black markers. That was not in order. Members are aware that the only items
that are acceptable for tabling are paper documents, and the Chair would ask
all members to resist the temptation to send anything else to the Table.
Also during ta=
bling of
returns and documents, the Leader of the Official Opposition made remarks a=
bout
the utility of the document which he sent to the Table. This is also out of
order as there is no debate permitted at that time.
Are there any =
returns
or documents for tabling?
Any
reports of committees?
Are there any
petitions?
Are there any =
bills to
be introduced?
Are there any =
notices
of motion?
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr. Cardiff:=
span> I give notice of the follow=
ing
motion:
THAT this Hous=
e urges
the
(1) make
income security, housing and social inclusion priorities;
(2) be
based in a strong human rights framework;
(3) measure
poverty;
(4) deal with =
factors
that put some at greater risk than others;
(5) have healt=
h and
income security ministers take the lead;
(6) establish
a stronger, renewed National Council on Welfare to be called the National
Council on Poverty and Social Inclusion; and,
(7) establish
an independent poverty elimination commissioner to monitor and hold governm=
ent
accountable for the elimination of poverty in Canada.
I also give no=
tice of
the following motion:
THAT this Hous=
e urges
the Yukon government to support Bill C-304, An
Act to ensure secure, adequate, accessible and affordable housing for Canad=
ians,
which is sponsored by the New Democratic Party of Canada and is presently
before the House of Commons, in order to require the minister responsible f=
or
the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to:
(1) consult
with the provincial and territorial ministers responsible for municipal aff=
airs
and housing; and,
(2) consult
with representatives of municipalities, aboriginal communities, non-profit =
and
private sector housing providers and civil society organizations;
in order to establish a national housing
strategy.
Speaker: Are there any further notices of motion?=
Is there a min=
isterial
statement?
Speaker’s ruling
Speaker: Pr=
ior to
proceeding with Question Period, the Chair will rule on points of order rai=
sed
during yesterday’s Question Period.
In the interes=
t of
time, the Chair will not repeat all that was said yesterday and will simply
rule on the matter.
However, the C=
hair
does thank all members for their contributions to the points of order
yesterday. The Chair finds that neither of the phrases used yesterday by th=
e Member
for Kluane were out of order, in the context in which they were used. Neith=
er
phrase attributed a false or unavowed motive to another member or accused
another member of deliberately misleading the House.
As for the ref=
erence
to Standing Order 23(4), that is relevant where the Speaker is called upon =
to
name a member of the House, which was not at issue yesterday.
The Chair appr=
eciates
that some members may not be pleased with this ruling; however, the House i=
s a
forum for political debate and not all strong words are necessarily unparli=
amentary.
At the same ti=
me, the
Chair would remind all members that strong words have a tendency to beget
strong words and members who use them may find themselves on the receiving =
end
of similar comments in the future.
The Chair than=
ks all
members for the attention to this ruling. This then brings us to Question P=
eriod.
QUESTION PERIOD
Question re: Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage
portfolio
<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Mr. Mitchell: =
<=
/span>I
have questions for the Minister of Finance. His colleague, the minister
responsible for the Yukon Housing Corporation, has been in denial for months
about the government’s plan to sell off Yukoners’ mortgages.
Minutes from the Yukon Housing Corporation’s meeting in August 2009 a=
re
very clear: “The Corporation does not have enough cash in its bank ac=
count
to pay all of its expenditures for the fiscal year.”
The corporation
considered three options, including selling the mortgage portfolio to a ban=
k in
order to raise money. The minutes also proved that the Minister of Finance =
was
part of the discussions, stating: “The current dialogue between YHC, =
the
Department of Finance, and a bank do not appear to lead to a short-term
solution.”
Will the Minis=
ter of
Finance tell Yukoners what role he played in this latest privatization plan=
? Or
is he in denial just like his colleague?
Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
The part that the member does not bother=
to
read I quote again because it was blacked out in the document sent to him. =
I will
read it again in the House: “…Yukon Housing Corporation Board of
Directors approved a one-time offer on the removal of any prepayment penalty
for Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage clients, and encourage those clients=
to
transfer their mortgages to a bank.”
What was happe=
ning is
bank rates, at that point, were as low as about 1.5 percent, I believe. I k=
now
one person who was down in that range for a variable mortgage. Some of the
Yukon Housing Corporation mortgages were as high as 7.9 percent. It made se=
nse
for some of these people to have the opportunity, which they asked for, to
transfer their mortgages to a bank and take advantage of other bank program=
s,
such as a line of credit that would allow them to free up some money for an
education, a higher education, a new car or whatever it happened to be. That
was what it was all about. For the member opposite, it has nothing to do wi=
th
what amount was in the bank, as he knows — although they do convenien=
tly
somehow miss a savings account of over $100 million and claim that it’=
;s
not there — what was lacking was vote authority, which was taken care=
of
later in the further supplementary. Of course, what he also conveniently mi=
sses
is $7.19 million in this supplementary budget. Boy, did we do a bad job of =
trying
to sell it off.
Mr. Mitchell:
The Will the Finan=
ce
minister tell Yukoners what role he played in these discussions, or does he
expect Yukoners to believe his department was involved without his knowledg=
e? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
The document I’m reading from is
entitled, Yukon Housing Corporation=
Board
of Directors Meeting, Mr. Mitchell: Last year the =
Premier
was secretly negotiating the sell-off of our energy future. The former chai=
r of
Yukon Energy Corporation blew the whistle on that plan and the Premier̵=
7;s
right-hand man resigned over it. It appears the Premier learned nothing from
that experience because, a few months later, he was right back at it, tryin=
g to
sell off Yukoners’ mortgages. It’s all about trust. The minutes we
obtained under access to information confirm the Premier’s involvement
— quote: “The current dialogue between YHC, the Department of
Finance and a bank do not appear to lead to a short-term solution.” Will the Premi=
er admit
the government considered privatizing the mortgage portfolio and that he was
involved? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
According to the Yukon Housing Corporation Act — or whatever the title is there
— neither the Premier nor the minister sit on that board. He is obvio=
usly
saying that the Liberals would expect a seat and would expect to control th=
at. Now again, it =
is the
duty of the Yukon Housing Corporation Board of Directors, as any board, to =
do
due diligence and make good recommendations, which they do. I’m readi=
ng
from a document that was provided to me on Monday morning, after the Member=
for
Kluane referred to a document in this House but failed to table it. I had no
idea what the document was that he was reading from, so I requested a copy.=
I do not get t=
he minutes
of board of directors meetings. I don’t want to — they’re=
an
independent body. But what the Liberal leader has said and what the Liberal
Party has said is that they would interfere with corporate boards, they wou=
ld
interfere with their decisions, they would expect seats on that board, I wo=
uld
assume, to give that control, and they somehow have missed $7.19 million ad=
ded
to the mortgage portfolio, and yet they claim that this was trying to sell =
it
off. Why would we put $7.195 million into the account if we were trying to =
sell
it? The member isn’t even close to reality. Question re: &=
nbsp; Yukon
Housing Corporation mortgage portfolio
Mr.
Mitchell: Let’s follow up with the Fina=
nce minister
who has been abnormally silent on this issue. The Yukon Housing Corporation
Board of Directors meeting minutes for Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Again, for the member opposite, he menti=
ons
“bank” — gosh, the Yukon Housing Corporation talks to ban=
ks
about mortgages. What an incredible piece of information the Liberal leader=
has
stumbled into. Yes, because w=
hen
mortgages are discharged earlier, before their maturation — if the me=
mber
opposite thought he had a good knowledge of mortgages, but perhaps he
doesn’t — there is a penalty, most often in the three-month ran=
ge
penalty, and there are legal fees. We asked the banks what the cost would b=
e,
what the cost of legal fees would be to change the mortgage over to the ban=
k.
We got their good advice and, when we asked for an analysis by the Manageme=
nt
Board Secretariat — when the corporation asked for that analysis R=
12;
the corporation pointed out that we would be giving up revenue, obviously, =
by
waiving that fee. The Yukon Hous=
ing
Corporation allowed Management Board to give their good advice. Yes, there
would be a loss of revenue. We didn’t think it would be significant; =
we
were willing to waive that. That has not been presented to Management Board=
or
Cabinet for a decision. I would certainly support it; I think it’s a =
good
idea; but it has not been presented to government. Mr. Mitchell: We’re as=
king for
the ministers in this government to be open and accountable for statements =
made
in this House and actions taken in the departments they’re responsible
for. Be accountable; it is all about trust, Mr. Speaker. Why deny the
negotiations? Was it going to hit too close to home with the secret energy
sell-off negotiations? Will the Premier admit the government considered
privatizing the mortgage portfolio and that he was therefore involved? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Again, the member opposite doesn’t=
seem
to be listening or digesting what he’s being told here. In transferrin=
g the
mortgage clients to banks — and I’ll read from the same document
— the Yukon Housing Corporation would remove deterrents and consider =
incentives
to encouraging existing mortgage clients to transfer their mortgages to a b=
ank.
For example, the three-month interest penalty could be waived for green-home
mortgage clients who want to move their mortgage to a bank. Yukon Housing
Corporation could also pay a contribution to the legal costs involved ̵=
2;
and they suggested $500 — with a transfer of a Yukon Housing Corporat=
ion
mortgage to a bank, as an incentive. This would =
reduce
Yukon Housing Corporation’s mortgage portfolio in exchange for cash. =
It would,
but it would also drop the amount of income. These are the =
sorts of
things the Management Board Secretariat does. What I’m shocked at is =
that
the member opposite again tells us that a Liberal government would want to =
have
input and control into a corporation. We don’t find that acceptable. =
And
what I’m also hearing is that he has very little respect for the
Management Board Secretariat that does these analyses. They are exceptional
people and give us good advice. Obviously, advice isn’t high in this
member’s portfolio. Mr. Mitchell: It is about tr=
ust, and
Yukoners learn more and more each day that they cannot trust this governmen=
t.
Yukoners are tired of this government’s secret negotiations and then =
the
denials that follow. They are tired of not getting the full story from
ministers when asked questions. All they hear is “Deny, deny,
deny.” They want to hear the actual facts and a real answer to questi=
ons.
Will either minister come clean and tell us about their involvement in the
Department of Finance’s and Yukon Housing Corporation’s discuss=
ions
on selling off Yukoners’ mortgages? Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
Mr. Speaker, this is interesting, consid=
ering
the issue of trust. You know the Liberals originally accused this governmen=
t of
selling Energy Corporation assets. Isn’t it interesting today they are
now talking about energy future? In that context, Mr. Speaker, energy futur=
e in
the Secondly, the =
member
opposite, the Liberal leader is now trying to fabricate an issue of selling=
a
mortgage portfolio — Some Hon. M=
ember: (Inaudible) Point of order Speaker: =
; Leader of the Official Opposition, on a p=
oint
of order. Mr. Mitchell: In accusing another member of fabrication, the member violates Stand=
ing
Order 19 — it speaks about truth. I think you know which one. I could
pick several of them. It’s about accusing another member of being
untruthful in this House. Speaker’s ruling Speaker: You are right. Hon. Premier, do not use =
that
terminology. Sit down, sir. Sit down, please. The Hon. Premi=
er knows
more than enough not to use that kind of terminology. It goes back to the
ruling that I made earlier today: harsh words will beget harsh words, and
nobody wants to be called the words that each side has been using. Members,
just keep that in mind. Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
Inferences here are that in the responsi=
bility
of the Yukon Housing Corporation Board of Directors and all involved, when
there’s a spending of monies that are over-vote authority, that is
somehow, in the Liberal Leader’s mind, a selling of assets or a mortg=
age
portfolio. If the member cared to look at the facts of the matter, the
decisions made by government address the over-vote authority of spending by=
the
Yukon Housing Corporation. The minister has been clear on that. The minister
has been clear on all counts. This is just another one of those Liberal
fantasies. Question re:
Water quality testing Mr.
Cardiff: Yesterday I asked the
Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources several questions about this govern=
ment’s
management of the mining boom. It’s safe to say he was unprepared and=
he
got flustered. We’re looking for evidence of this so-called strong
regulatory regime. In response, the minister used a lot of words like
“trust” and “faith”, but never answered the serious
questions that we posed. Yukoners want to see some evidence that, apart from
taking credit for the boom, this government is actually managing it properl=
y.
So I will ask the same question as yesterday, and I hope the minister is
prepared today, and can provide some details. Why is the Department of
Environment — the department with the most experience in knowledge of
water quality testing — been dispossessed of the mining file? Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
I would encourage the member opposite to=
vary
from his script, and to listen to the responses that are provided in this
Assembly. We do have a very strong regulatory process in this territory. Lo=
ok
at our different vehicles we have for accessing projects, whether they̵=
7;re
through YESAA or the different legislation we have, whether it’s thro=
ugh
the Waters Act, the Quartz Mining Act, the different
regulatory processes such as the quartz mining land use permit or the mining
land use permit. The member opposite, the NDP, is putting forward the idea =
that
inspectors in the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources are less
professional, less responsible and follow the Waters Act less than other inspectors would. Again, I’=
;ll say
for the member opposite, that is ridiculous. He should retract any statemen=
t of
that nature. It’s insulting not only to me, but to the inspectors,
through client services and inspection in the Department of Energy, Mines a=
nd
Resources. They do an excellent job of following Mr. Cardiff: As I said yesterday, it’s not the officials or =
the
employees we’re concerned about; we’re concerned about the
minister’s leadership on this. The second que=
stion I
have deals with the court challenge around Western Copper. The Water Board =
said
no to the water licence in this controversial project. The company said,
“We’ll see you in court” — something that’s
popular with this government. Important stuff. The Yukon River
Inter-Tribal Watershed Council’s report, entitled Water Quality Protection in the Yukon River Watershed, says this
case could make or break our water regime. We wanted to k=
now
yesterday what this government plans to do. What is its position? Instead, =
the
minister got angry. He said the NDP was impugning officials. That’s n=
ot
what we were doing. The minister said I was off-topic. He was the one who w=
as
off-topic. Let’s try again. How will the minister defend our strong
regulatory regime before the Supreme Court on this action? Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
Yes, I will get angry when official=
s in
this government, the hard-working people who do the work that they’re
entrusted to carry out, are insulted by others. I will get angry at that. Again, the mem=
ber
opposite needs to clear the water on this. He needs to stop muddying it.
We’re hearing a couple of different issues being brought forward here=
. He
has talked about the Water Board; he’s talking about environmental st=
andards.
But he doesn’t seem to grasp the areas of responsibilities that all h=
ave. I appreciate t=
he
question. Let’s try to provide a bit of clarity to this. The Governme=
nt
of Yukon has significant pieces of legislation and regulation on our books.
These include the Waters Act, t=
he
placer regulations, the quartz mining regulations — we follow those.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> We also go through with an assessm=
ent
process through YESAA, which is done through the federal government with the
involvement of the territorial government, Yukon First Nations and others. =
We
also have the Water Board, which is a quasi-judicial body that follows its =
own
processes. There are significant processes in place to protect Mr. Cardiff: The minister’s lack of responses to these quest=
ions
leads me to believe he has some concerns that he doesn’t want to share
with Yukoners. Now the Waters Act=
i>
— Some Hon. M=
ember: (Inaudible) Point of order Speaker: Go ahead, Minister of Energy, Mines and
Resources, on a point of order. Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
I’ve sat through a lot, but t=
o have
a member impute a false or unavowed motive time and time again is extremely
frustrating in this Assembly. Speaker’s ruling Speaker: On the point of order, I understand the =
honourable
member’s frustrations and sometimes it is the nature of controversial=
and
hard questions but, from the Chair’s perspective, there is no point of
order. Mr. Cardiff: The Waters Ac=
t
has been enforced since Yesterday I as=
ked
whether this government has been sitting on recommendations about amendment=
s to
the Waters Act. He didn’t
answer that question either, so I’ll try again. Is it true that an
internal review suggesting amendments that would strengthen the Waters Act has been gathering dust=
for
years at the Cabinet table? Hon. Mr. Rouble: Well, we know the NDP would like Yukoners to believe that inspectors=
in
the Department of Energy, Mines, and Resources do less of a job than inspec=
tors
in other departments. That patently isn’t correct. I appreciate it do=
es
get heated in here, but we do have to recognize the strong regulatory frame=
work
that we have in the territory with strong pieces of legislation. We have to
respect the issue of devolution, the devolution of the Waters Act, and the good work of successor resource working gro=
ups,
in order to provide successor legislation. These are issues that the govern=
ment
is currently working on. We’re
responsible for not only that act, but the Lands
Act and a number of other different pieces of successor legislation. De=
volution
was an important step for this territory, and it’s one that this
government has responded to responsibly. We will work with our inspectors,
whatever department they’re in, to ensure that our legislation is met,
followed and enforced appropriately. Question re:
Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage portfolio Mr. McRobb:=
195; It was only last year when this Yukon Par=
ty
government tried to privatize Now it turns o=
ut that,
shortly after the lid blew off on the Premier’s secret privatization
plan, the minister responsible for the Yukon Housing Corporation embarked on
his own plan to privatize Yukoners’ mortgages. Last week the minister=
revealed
that a submission to Management Board was prepared. Will the minister, in an
open and accountable way, agree to make that Management Board submission
public? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: For the member opposite, and for anyone
listening, let me read again from the minutes. “In the past two years,
Yukon Housing Corporation has experienced a significant increase in public
demand for its loan programs. In 2008-09, the Housing Corporation issued tw=
ice
as many loans as the previous year, and this had an impact of cash flow wit=
hin
the vote authority.” At that point, I think there was still over $200
million in the savings account, but no vote authority to spend it. It
continues: “The Corporation does not have enough cash in its bank acc=
ount…”
The corporation didn’t; government did, but the corporation did not h=
ave
that vote authority to pay all of its expenditures. While YHC did receive a
$23-million cash injection in its bank account from the It was this =
8212;
and I’ll let the member ask another question, and I’m sure he w=
ill,
and I would be happy to read the rest of that. The corporation looked at
options. What I hear very strongly is the Liberal Party does not believe in
corporations doing independent work; it does not support the members of the
boards of directors — good Yukoners who volunteer their time and their
efforts to govern these corporations. The member opposite would interfere a=
nd
not let them work. Mr. McRobb: This minister should try to answer the
questions instead of arriving at wrong conclusions. The minister’s
failure to release these documents contradicts his rhetoric about being open
and accountable. It is only reasonable to conclude, therefore, this evidence
proves the case that, indeed, this government was secretly working to priva=
tize
Yukoners’ mortgages at a discount. Information ob=
tained
through access to information states, and I quote: “The Corporation d=
oes
not have enough cash in its bank account to pay all of its expenditures for=
the
fiscal year.” The corporatio=
n was
broke and needed cash, so the minister wanted to sell the mortgage portfoli=
o.
He even had Management Board do an analysis. At the end of the day, the gov=
ernment
backed off, just like the Premier did when his back-room deal was exposed. =
Will
the minister provide this material or does he insist on keeping it secret?<=
o:p> Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Since the member opposite read part of w=
hat I
had read, I’ll continue: “YHC’s
equity position is good, with the mortgage portfolio having a principal bal=
ance
of over $44 million. In addition, there is an interest revenue on that
portfolio which can be estimated at five percent” — significant=
ly
higher, I would point out, than the banks were offering at that point ̵=
2;
“or $2.7 million. YHC also has property with a book value of over $23
million. The current market value of these properties is considerably higher
than the book value shown for these assets.” The corporatio=
n did
its good due diligence. It looked at options. It asked Management Board to =
look
at options. That’s what they do, and they do an exceptionally good jo=
b on
it. The member opposite has just told us the Liberals would not allow
corporations to work independently. They would not allow the board of direc=
tor
members to act independently. Boy, if I were looking at joining a board rig=
ht
now under a Liberal government, I wouldn’t go near such a board, beca=
use
they would be constantly harassed and interfered with. That’s the Lib=
eral
way; it’s not our way. It’s an independent corporation. Mr. McRobb: Once again, this minister is not answeri=
ng the
questions. I asked him to make certain information available to the public =
and
he again refused. This is the same approach this government took when it tr=
ied
to privatize our energy future. It promised to be open and then refused to =
provide
any documents. The minister told this House last week there was a decision =
document
done by the Management Board Secretariat. He also said that the Management
Board Secretariat did their good work to give advice and options. This same mini=
ster
also said he has nothing to hide, so let’s try one more time: will the
minister release the work that was done by Management Board? Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
The Member for Kluane wants documents, a=
nd it
is all about trust and it is all about being open and accountable. Will the
Member for Kluane present this House the documents that will corroborate the
statements by the Liberals — and many of them were made — that =
the Yes, the membe=
r should
be open and accountable. The member should — should — provide t=
he
evidence that backs up his statements. The Yukon Party
government, when it commits, it delivers with action. The Liberals
unfortunately talk a lot, make all kinds of inferences and provide the publ=
ic
zero in the way of facts or evidence. That is about trust, Mr. Speaker. How
could you trust a government that acts in that manner? Question re: &=
nbsp; Yukon
Energy Corporation/ Mr. McRobb: Last year it was revealed that this Yukon
Party government spent $275,000 of taxpayers’ funds on four contracts=
for
consultants to negotiate the secret sale of Yukon Energy to In April, the =
Premier
was again asked to release the documents referring to the mandate for
negotiations. Six months later, this government still hasn’t produced=
the
documents. Releasing these documents for Yukoners to see would be the open =
and
accountable thing to do, so I ask the Premier: when can we expect to see th=
ese
documents released? Hon. Mr. Fentie: What is very confusing when you lis=
ten to
the Member for Kluane is the member has already presented all these so-call=
ed
documents that were apparently, in the member’s mind, evidence of som=
e sale.
Let’s lo=
ok at
what’s happening in the Question re: &=
nbsp; Yukon
Housing Corporation mortgage portfolio
Mr.
Mitchell: Let’s return to the Finance minister̵=
7;s
involvement in the potential sell-off of the Yukon Housing Corporation
mortgages. We’ve been here before; we went through the same routine w=
ith
the Yukon Energy privatization scandal. The minutes from the board of trust=
ees
of the Housing Corporation in August 2009 are very clear. The Finance depar=
tment
was involved in the privatization discussions that were going on with the b=
ank. We have alread=
y asked
the question: were Yukoners mortgages on the auction block? The evidence sa=
ys,
“Yes, Yukoners’ mortgages were on the auction block, just like
Yukon Energy.” This government said, “No, absolutely not
true.” That’s the same thing they said about Yukon Energy. What
should the public believe — the minutes or the minister? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
You know, thi=
s is
kind of an interesting tack here. When Management Board does an analysis, w=
hen the
Yukon Housing Corporation Board of Directors does an analysis involving
finances, the Finance department gets involved. So what the Liberal leader =
has
just said is that he would not want the Finance department to be involved in
any financial discussions. Well, that was pretty obvious by ballooning a
$17-million transmission line — Mayo to It’s very
frustrating, but I do, again, have to go back into Hansard in 2001. The current Member for Kluane said, and I quote
from Hansard: “… when you vote Liberal, you’re pre=
pared
to throw your values out the window; you’re prepared to forget everyt=
hing
you have heard, and hang on for the ride and expect darn near anything
they’ll throw at you because the decisions will be made in the backro=
om
with their backroom friends.” The member opposite researched after th=
at
and he joined the party — he wanted to be part of that. Mr. Mitchell: The Premier di=
d an end
run before and tried to sell off assets within this minister’s portfo=
lio.
The Yukon Energy Corporation was almost sold to an Alberta-based, private s=
ector
corporation two years ago, and the same minister responsible claimed he
didn’t know a thing about that either. So we’ll=
bring
this back to the Premier. Let’s not wait for the final supplementary.=
As
I said, we’ve been here before. Was the privatization of YukonersR=
17;
mortgages a corner-office file? Did the Premier personally handle these
negotiations, as he did with Yukon Energy? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
For the member’s information, I be=
lieve
the boardroom at the Yukon Housing Corporation is in a corner, so I suppose=
it
was done in a corner office. He refers to t=
he
minutes and a committee. To make sure that the media and everyone listening=
and
reading Hansard is clear. The
committee he refers to was a finance and program review steering committee
formed to examine the various approaches. It included the vice-president of
operations of the Yukon Housing Corporation, the director of program delive=
ry,
the senior program advisor, the director of community and industry partneri=
ng,
the acting director of finance systems and administration, and the director=
of
policy and communications. What a shock — they consulted Finance; they
consulted banks; and they looked at the financial position. This is what b=
oards of
directors do. Normally, they do it without the input of their political
masters, but the Liberals have already said that they’d interfere.
They’d keep a close finger on this. They would want copies of all the=
minutes
of every board. They would really want to know what was going on in there a=
nd
control it. That is not reasonable. Mr. Mitchell: Now the minist=
er who
is actually responsible for the Housing Corporation claims that it’s =
not
true, it never happened. Clearly, the evidence says otherwise. Perhaps the
minister responsible just didn’t hear it. He wasn’t reading the
minutes. The Premier is well known for his willingness to take personal cha=
rge
of important negotiations, especially when it comes to privatization scheme=
s.
The Premier has lost one of his ministers already because he was negotiatin=
g a
privatization deal behind the backs of his Cabinet. We have no evidence yet
that the Premier has learned his lesson, so let’s ask the question
directly one more time. Being the last supplementary, we know he’ll
finally answer. When is the Premier going to stop trying to sell Yukoners
public assets to private sector corporations? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
The member opposite refers to no proof. =
Well,
yes, that’s the problem: they have no proof. On this side, we’re
responsible for what we say. On the opposition side, there is no responsibi=
lity
whatsoever for what they are saying, and that is a definite problem. The Liberal me=
mber
— the man who would be king — is saying that he would expect his
government to interfere with boards of directors, with corporations, with a=
ll
boards, all 600 people. Boy, would I be nervous about joining a board. Volu=
nteering
my time under a Liberal government would bother me. Again, I go back to Hansard. Speaker: The time for Question Period has now ela=
psed.
We will now proceed to Orders of the Day. ORD=
ERS OF THE
Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
<=
/span>I
move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into
Committee of the Whole. Speaker: It has been moved by the Government House
Leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve i=
nto
Committee of the Whole. Motion agreed to Speaker leaves the Chair COM=
MITTEE OF
THE WHOLE =
span>Chair
(Mr. Nordick):
Order please. Committee of the Whole will now come to order. The matter bef=
ore
the Committee is Bill No. 22, Second
Appropriation Act, 2010-11. We’ll now proceed with Yukon Housing
Corporation general debate. Do members wish a brief recess? All
Hon. Members: Agreed. Chair: Committee of the Whole will recess for 15
minutes. Recess Chair: Order please. Committee of the Whole wil=
l now
come to order. The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 22, Second Appropriation Act, 2010-11.=
We
will now proceed with Vote 18, the Yukon Housing Corporation. Yukon Housing Corporation Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Mr. Chair, it gives me great pleasure to
introduce and discuss Vote 18, the Back in 2009,
you’ll recall that the Government of Canada and The announceme=
nt
included federal funding of $51 million over two years under As well, $1 mi=
llion
was announced in programs to assist seniors and persons with disabilities
specifically to renovate and retrofit existing social housing. Again, these
funds were available over two fiscal years. The territory =
is
contributing a further $4 million for these initiatives. Since signing the
agreement with I should point=
out
that the construction of additional social housing is the first in over a
decade. Other governments had not gotten that far, or had not done any of t=
hat.
Through The fact is, s=
ince
2005 this government has invested almost $100 million in new, affordable
housing. The Yukon Housing Corporation has undertaken major housing constru=
ction
projects and upgrades of affordable housing throughout the territory.
I’ll add here that all new construction is being built to Yukon Housi=
ng
Corporation’s SuperGreen energy standards which were basically invent=
ed
and developed in the Let’s re=
view the
status of the major projects, along with the impact they’ve made or a=
re
making on the local economy and on the quality of life. For starters, =
with
this new construction, the Yukon Housing Corporation has increased its hous=
ing
portfolio by 158 units. That’s 158 units more than the previous two
governments did, which produced zero units. Yukon Housing Corporation opera=
tes
576 social housing units in 10 communities and new construction will add ov=
er
100 additional units. I’d like=
to be
more specific and break it down per project because it’s important th=
at
the public knows of the good work being done by the The We worked with=
the
Women’s Directorate on this family housing project, and the demograph=
ic
group of lone-parent families has been identified as having the largest need
for housing. This development includes amenities that benefit the positive
growth and development of families. This includes outdoor areas, suitable
fencing, enhanced interior design, and a layout specific to the needs of yo=
ung
families. I’d like=
to talk
for a second about the Ingram sixplex in the new Ingram subdivision in Takhini duplex=
es in The Whitehorse=
seniors
residence, or Waterfront Place — and we’ve been referring to th=
is
for quite some time now as the Alexander Street replacement — it̵=
7;s
actually 22 Waterfront Place, I think, is the actual address right now R=
12;
so we’ll refer to it as Waterfront Place. We’re working with th=
e Department
of Highways and Public Works to build that building, which will be a replac=
ement
and somewhat of an addition to the The complex ha=
s 24
one-bedroom units and six two-bedroom units. The development also helps to
address an aging If we move out=
of
Whitehorse to Dawson City social housing — the Yukon Housing Corporat=
ion
is working with the Department of Highways and Public Works to replace the
Korbo apartment building in Dawson City with a new 19-unit affordable housi=
ng
building, making a net gain of six more social housing units. Over half the
units are one-bedroom apartments, and this is again consistent with the
recommendations to reprofile to meet a current =
need
consistent with the Auditor General’s comments. The projected =
total
capital cost of that project is $6 million, expended over the fiscal year
2010-11. Site selection, rezoning, geotechnical testing and design were
completed in 2009-10 by the Yukon Housing Corporation. Direct and indirect
impacts of the project are 28 jobs and a $2.7-million contribution to gross
domestic product. We have to loo=
k at
some of the other projects too and what we just referred to as
“double-wide trailers”. The Yukon Housing Corporation will be
building up to 16 houses to replace existing old double-wide trailers
throughout the Each single-fa=
mily
house will be approximately 1,200 to 1,300 square feet, with three bedrooms,
and will be built to Yukon Housing Corporation SuperGreen energy standards,=
and
its accommodating home standards for a barrier-f=
ree
environment. In This seniors b=
uilding
includes eight one-bedroom units and four two-bedroom units. It’s bui=
lt
to Yukon Housing Corporation’s accommodating home standards, and of
course to the SuperGreen energy efficiency standards. The new building feat=
ures
include energy efficient construction, as I mentioned, barrier-free common
areas, such as an exercise room, TV lounge, capacity for meal preparation, =
and
a common dining area. There are a lot of opportunities and a lot of flexibi=
lity
in this building. If we come bac=
k toward
Teslin, a new eight-unit residence is also nearing completion. This seniors
building will include seven one-bedroom units, and one two-bedroom unit. The
total project cost is $2.5 million, and based on multipliers provided by the
Department of Economic Development, this project is generating just over 16=
.5
person years of direct employment and approximately four additional indirect
person years of employment. It, too, of course, is built to Yukon Housing C=
orporation’s
SuperGreen energy standards and accommodating standards for a barrier-free
environment. To Faro —=
; this
last August, we held a ribbon-cutting ceremony in Faro for a new six-unit
building for seniors. Many of the town’s residents were in attendance.
The total project cost was $2.2 million. Again, based on multipliers provid=
ed
by the Department of Economic Development, this project is
generating just over 11 person years of direct employment and approximately=
2.5
additional indirect person years of employment. Building senio=
rs
housing is important, particularly in the rural communities, because our The five-year =
trend
shows that all communities have grown in overall population size and that
people over 50 years of age in community are forming a larger percentage of=
the
overall demographic. If we move back into For those who
aren’t familiar with Abbeyfield, Abbeyfield is a non-profit organizat=
ion
that accounts for about 11,000 housing units, I believe, across Abbeyfield hou=
ses were
first established in There are now =
over
1,100 Abbeyfield houses in 14 countries — I correct myself on that, M=
r.
Chair — and the first Canadian Abbeyfield house was established in 19=
87
in Sidney, British Columbia. The
Abbeyfield concept provides seniors with a private area of their own within=
the
companionship of a shared household. Each building provides modified indepe=
ndent
living suites plus common areas including lounges, a dining room and kitche=
n,
recreation areas and a laundry room, and nutritional meals are prepared by a
house coordinator who may live on-site and is also responsible for looking
after everyday needs of the residents. There
is no provision for acute or long-term care requirements. This is not a med=
ical
facility; it is a residential option. Our Yukon Abbeyfield will include up =
to
12 bed-sitting rooms, each with a private bathroom, and shared common spaces
which will include, as I mentioned, the kitchen, dining room, living room, =
et
cetera. Land
has already been selected on Yukon
Housing Corporation plans to hold an information session later this fall to
determine the interest of various non-governmental organizations in operati=
ng
or helping to operate this facility. This is a model
that’s done in most other Abbeyfields, and
we’re curious and anxious to see what we can do in that regard and
perhaps build even more of these in the future. If we come bac=
k to the
children’s receiving home — another collaborative project with =
the
Department of Health and Social Services — there has been the
construction of a new children’s receiving home. The children’s
receiving home is a temporary home for children and youth who have been rem=
oved
from their families and who need a period of assessment and stabilization.<=
o:p> We held a
ribbon-cutting event this July, and staff and tenants have been occupying t=
he
home ever since. The original children’s receiving home was built ove=
r 40
years ago and was definitely at the end of its life. We knew that. I
won’t go into any more detail. It was ready to come down. A life cycle
cost benefit analysis concluded it was more cost-effective to build a new
replacement home. I’ll sto=
p there.
There are other comments I would like to make but, in the interest of runni=
ng
out of time, I’ll allow the opposition to ask questions and we’=
ll
get back to this. Mr. McRobb: Just to begin on a lighter note, I would
mention that, had the minister visited the Abbeyfield complex last evening,=
he
would have seen that the Canucks fans weren’t particularly having a g=
ood
time, especially in the second and third periods of the game against Now, I would l=
ike to
thank all the officials, the employees and board members who work for and
assist the Yukon Housing Corporation for all the good work they’ve do=
ne
and the good work they continue to do. Rest assured, we in the opposition f=
ully
realize that issues of concern are related to this government’s
leadership or, as the case may be, lack thereof. When these people hear us
raising concerns about the corporation, we want to assure them this is not =
an
attack on officials or an attack on their work. We fully recognize how
government works. That is, directions come from the top. Now I know the
minister likes to say the corporation is independent and arm’s length,
but there are times when that arm is pretty short. The issues of concern to=
the
opposition today and of public interest, of course, deal with those occasio=
ns
when a minister’s arm is very short. As we heard today in Question
Period, it’s not only the Yukon Housing Corporation minister whose ar=
m is
short, in terms of giving orders to the department. The Premier has also ha=
d a
hand through the Department of Finance, and no doubt through other means, in
giving instructions to the corporation. We all know how this works. We saw =
it
when the Premier’s plan to secretly privatize Yukoners’ energy
future — when the lid blew off that one. We heard direct testimony fr=
om
the board members who resigned as a matter of public principle to make peop=
le
aware of what was going on behind the scenes. We saw in that=
case
how the Premier had a direct hand. In some cases, this direct involvement by
the Premier is without the knowledge of the minister responsible for
departments or corporations. I think we see that more often than what has b=
een
proven. That’s one of the driving reasons we’ve made several
requests for information — to obtain documentation that could prove, =
in
each instance, one way or the other. How have we ma=
de out
getting this documentation? Not very good — not v=
ery
good. Our requests have been simple and clear. They’ve been ma=
de
through questions during Question Period. We’ve put motions on the
record. We’ve had motions for the production of papers, yet this
government still hasn’t provided the documents requested. One has to
wonder why. Yukoners want =
a true
democracy in the territory. Yukoners want their government of the day to be
open, accountable and fiscally responsible. If you look at that term —
“open, accountable and fiscally responsible” — you’=
ll
find it verbatim in the Yukon Party campaign platform from the last electio=
n in
2006. You’ll also find that term numerous times on the record in Hansard, in media transcripts and =
plenty
of other locations. This governmen=
t will
say it’s open, accountable and fiscally responsible, but then it will
behave in a manner that is closed and evasive and unaccountable — the
exact opposite. This is something we’ve been dealing with for years u=
nder
Yukon Party rule, and it’s something the public has come to recognize=
as
the top issue. Of course, now
I’m referring to recent polls by DataPath=
Systems,
and the top issue of importance to Yukoners is good governance. Essentially,
the people are crying out for good governance. Are they getting it? Obvious=
ly
not — that is why they continue to cry out and identify good governan=
ce
as a top issue. This was the f=
inding
of not just the most recent poll, but previous polls as well. Good governan=
ce
to Yukoners is more important than the environment or the economy. That is =
a remarkable
statement. It raises all kinds of questions. What could possibly have happe=
ned
to make good governance the primary issue of importance to Yukoners ahead of
the economy and environment? Well, it was o=
nly a
year ago when this House was dealing in depth with the Yukon Party
government’s secret plan to privatize their energy future. Chair’s statement Chair: &=
#8194;Order please. Before we get too far long =
into
the debate on Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporation, I’d like to remind
members that in general debate on a budget bill, it’s a wide-ranging
debate, but when you’re in votes on a particular department, the deba=
te
is supposed to be on that department. I would encourage members to focus th=
eir
debate on Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporation. Mr. McRobb: Well, the concern with the public current=
ly
with respect to the Yukon Housing Corporation connects the dots in the mind=
s of
Yukoners with this other example about the Premier’s secret plan to
privatize their energy future, and that cannot be dismissed as being an
integral part of what’s happening now. Yukoners deserve answers when
ministers, such as this Housing minister, are asked, by us elected members =
in
this Assembly. We’ve asked for documentation; the minister refuses. W=
hat
do we get instead? We get quotes =
from
more than two governments ago about what a member said, about a government =
that
has no members currently sitting in this House. How relevant is that? Like I
said a week or two ago, we could respond in kind and bring forward similar
comments from the now Premier about what he said about the Yukon Party
government. Do we do that? No. No, we have not done that. This Housing
minister, in terms of this supplementary budget and the questions that are
today issues of importance to Yukoners — and we will be getting into
these issues in detail, but at this moment, the process is general debate on
this department, which accommodates some wide-ranging discussion in my
preamble, before asking questions — the Housing minister has several
times in this House given lengthy preambles up to the maximum time allotmen=
t of
20 minutes to simple questions, the content of which has very little to do =
with
questions and more to do with things that may not be relevant from the long=
-ago
past. We would urge =
the
minister to get with the program, get on the same page, and step to the pla=
te
in terms of the challenge to this government’s lack of accountability,
the challenge to this government’s lack of openness, the challenge to
this government’s lack of fiscal responsibility. How should he do tha=
t,
Mr. Chair? Well, he could start by providing the documentation that we requ=
est.
How can our Assembly properly function without the proper checks and balanc=
es
when only one side has the information? That is a key question. It’s =
like
a poker game when the government’s side has all the cards and we̵=
7;re
left on this side with blank pages and perhaps a box of Magic Markers to tr=
y to
fill in the blanks. That’s w=
hy we on
this side of the House ask the questions and that’s why members on th=
at
side of the House should be answering the questions. It’s very sad th=
at
it doesn’t work that way. This in itself is a case for legislative
reform, which, of course, is outside the parameters of today’s debate=
, so
I won’t go there. I’ll just say: what has happened with that
initiative anyway? The answer is, nothing. When it comes =
to being
open, accountable and fiscally responsible, this Yukon Party doesn’t =
walk
the talk. We hear a lot of rhetoric; it’s in black and white in its
campaign platform; it promised it to the voters. Are they getting it? No. W=
e on
this side are the voice of the public. We’ve been elected in here to =
hold
this government accountable. We’ve requested this documentation over =
and
over again, and what do we get? Irrelevant quotes from yesteryear. That fails Yuk=
oners
miserably. I think it goes a long way to explain the recent poll results. I
personally hope they will go a long way to explain the results of the next
election. That pretty mu=
ch
concludes my preamble. I want to go to a specific documentation request. Th=
is
should be fresh in the mind of the minister because I just asked for it abo=
ut
an hour ago. It seems the key component of this whole mortgage-privatization
scheme is this Management Board submission he had prepared. In Question Per=
iod
we asked for this submission repeatedly but were denied. Will the minister
provide this document, and if not, why not? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Some interesting poi=
nts,
and I do appreciate the levity about the Canucks. The Bruins aren’t d=
oing
too well on this, so I guess I can’t go there. For the member opposit=
e,
on a few different items, he said that we had done not very good. For his edification, knowing that I
don’t believe he actually graduated from a Chair’s statement Chair: Order please. The Chair has definitely h=
eard
personal comments on both sides this afternoon. As the Chair moderating the
debate, I’d like to shut the door on the personal comments right away=
. I
do appreciate that once one side gives a personal comment, the other side c=
omes
back with another personal comment. We’re kind of equal now, so
let’s carry on with the debate on Vote 18, please. Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Again, for the member opposite, to corre=
ct
some of his very incorrect assumptions — when he talks about governme=
nt
concern, and Yukon government’s concern, and Yukon Party concern R=
12;
it’s nice, but he still attacks — and I use that word because he
did — the minutes of Yukon Housing Corporation’s Board of
Directors. They’re not government minutes. They’re minutes of an
independent corporation board. That’s what the member opposite attack=
s.
So to say he really isn’t is simply fantasy. It’s not within th=
e realm
of accuracy. When he also t=
alks
about direction from the top, direction from the top is the president of the
corporation and the chair of the board of directors, who I know listens
carefully to all of these debates. That’s the top. They simply report=
to
the Legislative Assembly through a minister. When he talks about a “s=
hort
arm,” I tend to think that he probably means “long arm”
— to be able to reach in and fiddle with this, as the Liberals have
blatantly said over the last few days that they would reach in and manipula=
te
all these boards in a minute. I’ll hav=
e to be
honest with him — once I did. When the whole episode happened with 810
Wheeler, the Member for Whitehorse Centre, Mr. Todd Hardy, came to me with =
a suggestion
that we buy that property and donate it to Habitat for Humanity. It was a
brilliant idea. So the Yukon Housing Corporation bought the land — I =
have
to give full credit to the family who owned it, because they took less than=
the
market value as their part of the project. We supported t=
he use
of that class to do the initial framing, as the college has done in the past
with Habitat for Humanity. We paid the extra money that was involved because
there is extra money up front in doing that. We assisted them with the
technical expertise at every point, and we are picking up the mortgages as =
they
are finished, in the very near future, so that the Habitat for Humanity gro=
up
will have the ability to go on. So, yes, I did=
make a
suggestion at one point that was, unfortunately for the member opposite, the
complete choice of the board of directors to go ahead with that plan. It
wasn’t the government. I’d love to take credit for it; I
can’t. Two of us in this Assembly discussed it and made the suggestio=
n;
the board ran with it. I’d have=
to give
credit on one thing, and I really want to stress this. It always seems kind=
of
nice that the federal government would give you $50 million, but the proble=
m is
that that creates an awful lot of potential problems. How fast can you get =
it
spent? There is a def=
inite
timeline on that. It put an incredible amount of work and pressure on Yukon
Housing Corporation, on the board of directors, and very specifically, on t=
he
technical staff at Yukon Housing Corporation, who have been working absolut=
ely
non-stop since the introduction of Now, the member
opposite mentioned several times comments of past successes of the Liberal
government and, again, stressed, like the Member for Vuntut Gwitchin, that =
he
wasn’t a member of the government at the time. He wasn’t;
he’s right, but instead, what I hope he did — we deal with rese=
arch;
we deal with fact on this side of the House; we don’t sit in Oppositi=
on
where you can just kind of wing it as you go. I’m assuming that the
member opposite researched that material carefully and saw that the idea of=
a
Liberal minister responsible for Environment spending $5,000 to rent a camp=
er
to tour the campsites around the Yukon was a reasonable expenditure; that t=
he
transmission line of $17 million to $42 million was a reasonable expenditur=
e;
that the fact that they built no housing — zero social housing —
nothing — not a single one. They thought that that was pretty reasona=
ble.
The construction of a sawmill that went promptly
bankrupt — they thought that was good and they sought out and joined =
that
party because they wanted to be a part of it. Now I have to =
correct
another comment that the member opposite had made. He referred to a Managem=
ent
Board submission and I quote, “… he asked to be prepared.”
The minister didn’t ask for that to be prepared. The Housing Corporat=
ion
asked for that to be prepared, and the corporation received the information
that came from that. As I mentioned before and then stated emphatically, it=
was
never forwarded to Cabinet. It was never presented to Management Board itse=
lf.
It was never forwarded on to government. We never saw that document, so if =
the
member opposite wants to get it, he’s more than welcome to ATIPP it. =
He
has that right. This government has added the corporations to the public bo=
dies
that are ATIPP-able. There is no problem with that. I’m not even sure=
if the
member opposite voted for that — probably not, but anyway, that was
brought down. He might have. Again, he̵=
7;s
creating something that makes no sense whatsoever and that unfortunately is
rather sad. As I mentioned=
, in
addition to our own housing projects, we have been very much involved with =
the
Habitat for Humanity, and that’s a tremendously important home owners=
hip
project currently under construction in We partnered w=
ith the
local chapter of Habitat for Humanity and In addition, t=
he Yukon
Housing Corporation will provide, free of charge, ongoing technical assista=
nce
to the organization and assist them to build to the SuperGreen standards. Last year this
government provided approximately $170,000 so that land could be purchased =
for
the project. I mentioned before that that was less than what the market val=
ue
was estimated at, and we’re very grateful to the family for doing tha=
t.
The Yukon Housing Corporation then estimated that the cost of the building =
to
Yukon Housing Corporation’s SuperGreen energy efficiency standards wo=
uld
be approximately an additional $20,000 per unit. So the Compare that t=
o the
short lived Liberal government — 22 months, the shortest lived majori=
ty
government in the history of the Another $30,000
provided for in this budget is for the training and promotion of Habitat for
Humanity home ownership projects. This includes $8,000 for equipment that w=
ill
be able to monitor the performance of the building envelope and $15,000 for
industry and public technology and information transfer, which is a pictoral record — fact sheets, articles, site t=
ours,
et cetera and site seminars. Finally, there’s an additional $7,000 al=
located
for training and on-site instruction to While the new =
housing
construction has evidently kept us quite busy, this government has been act=
ive
on several other fronts to help Yukoners address their housing needs. The Y=
ukon
Housing Corporation is helping Yukoners obtain affordable housing through a
number of different initiatives, as well as helping them upgrade existing
rental and owner-occupied housing. I’ll speak about some of our many
efforts in this regard. Over the past =
year,
the Yukon Housing Corporation has devoted significant resources to the upgr=
ade
and repair of existing social housing stock to extend the life of these
buildings. This improves the quality of life for tenants and potentially
reduces the corporation’s O&M expense. I do have to sort of refer
back to the Habitat for Humanity buildings, where we did not want the
construction cost to be onerous on the new owners. The energy costs will be
down in the range of 20 percent of normal to heat those buildings. In other
words, a $1,000 heating bill for them just became $200. We joke that it cou=
ld
be heated with a cat — probably not far off. As I mentioned=
, the
Yukon Housing Corporation has devoted significant resources to the upgrade =
and
repair of the existing social housing stock. As I say, this improves the qu=
ality
of life for tenants and potentially reduces the corporation’s O&M
expenses, so there is another aspect in there to that. Through the so=
cial
housing transfer agreement with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the
federal government provides $250,000 per year for capital upgrades. This am=
ount
is supplemented this year and next with stimulus funding from When we look at
helping Yukoners build and repair housing stock, since 2002-03, the Yukon
Housing Corporation has loaned over $71 million to Yukoners to help address
housing needs. Almost all of this money is repayable with interest, save fo=
r a
small percentage of repair loans that have subsidies to further assist
applicants most in need. Another way we’re helping Yukoners to combat
homelessness and provide more housing is through our rental-suite program w=
ith
repair and construction funding. This
program provides preferred interest-rate loans to homeowners who have an
accessory suite in their home. Funding can be for full modernization or to
upgrade health and safety items to allow the suite to conform to bylaw requ=
irements.
In times of low vacancy rates, or for dedicated renters or in-law suites,
funding can be used to construct a new suite. Yukon Housing CorporationR=
17;s
technical officers will conduct site visits and provide technical advice
through the repair or construction process. We
also help with our rental rehabilitation program which provides funding for
rental property upgrades. This program provides preferred interest rate loa=
ns
to owners of rental accommodations. These may be single-family rental units=
or
multi-unit residential complexes, and the use of funds for upgrading energy
efficiency and barrier-free accessibility is encouraged. A full range of te=
chnical
expertise is available from the Yukon Housing Corporation. Health and safety
upgrades must be addressed on all projects, and that’s only reasonabl=
e. We’ve
also made changes to Yukon Housing Corporation’s social housing progr=
am
that help us to identify applicants with the greatest housing need and serve
them more efficiently. These people could be, for example, victims of viole=
nce
or people who require medical relocations. We recognize t=
here is an urgency to finding safe, stable accommodations for
victims of violence and our policy addresses this. Applicants who are victi=
ms
of violence receive higher point scores than other applicants, which increa=
se
their likelihood of being housed more quickly. Based on numerous consultati=
ons
with stakeholders and women’s groups between 2004 and 2006, Yukon Hou=
sing
Corporation determined that this group was in highest need, followed by sen=
iors
in rural Now I do have =
some
details for the member opposite that I can go through. We have time and
I’m sure he’s very interested in knowing everything that this
government considers essential, since the former Liberal government
didn’t do anything. The family-foc=
used
housing in In Faro, we=
217;re
constructing six units and six are added to the portfolio. The so-called
attached family housing, or the Ingram subdivision: six units, three- and
four-bedroom homes — that’s an addit=
ional
six units to the portfolio. For seniors housing in In But if you put=
that
all together, we have constructed 212 new units; we’ve added 158 to t=
he
portfolio, not including the 24 affordable student family housing, which al=
lows
students coming from communities to come into Yukon College, to come into
Whitehorse for training, to bring their families — we think that̵=
7;s
a marvellous idea. In total, 212
constructed, 158 added to the portfolio — 30 percent of the portfolio=
is
new and newly constructed, and that compares to the previous Liberal and NDP
governments producing zero. Mr. McRobb: So much for this government’s open=
ness
and accountability. We’ve heard it again — the Housing minister=
has
refused to provide the document requested. That raises a number of question=
s.
Does the Housing minister really expect us to believe he hasn’t seen =
the
document we requested? Is that what he wants us to believe? Does the Housi=
ng
minister really expect us to believe this government had nothing to do with=
the
secret privatization of Yukoners’ mortgages? Is that what he expects =
us
to believe? And does he really expect us to believe that Yukon Housing
Corporation employees, its board members, people on Management Board, et ce=
tera,
all acted on this secret privatization of Yukoners’ mortgages without=
at
least getting a thumbs-up from the minister or the Premier? Is that what he
expects us to believe? This minister =
likes to
cast aspersions on members across the way, especially those who are tasked =
with
the responsibility of trying to hold him accountable. One of his frequent a=
spersions
is trying to ridicule me for my history of being elected, which is in exces=
s of
14 years now, and never being involved in government. Well, this is another
example of how the minister is wrong. For the
minister’s awareness, the first three and a half years of my history =
in
here were spent on the government side. It was very interesting, in those t=
hree
and a half years, serving under the Piers McDonald government. I began to l=
earn
how things work. I began to see how certain things go down. I’m not
accusing that government of any wrongdoing — certainly not that. But I
saw opportunity for the rules to be bent, and I’ll stand by that
statement. I saw the opportunity. I guess the ultimate question is: did the
Yukon Party bend those rules? That’s what we’re trying to deter=
mine
here. The minister is keeping all the cards in the game to himself. He refu=
ses
to deal us any cards. Just a box of black Magic Markers and blank pages =
212;
that’s it — no cards, no Management Board submission. Back to my fir=
st
experience in government — I was privy to several conversations, the
upshot and essence of which was simply that Management Board does not go of=
f on
its own without a signal from the political level of government. Mr. Chair,
underline that statement because it is important, it cuts through the smoke=
and
mirrors and gets to the bottom of this whole matter. The minister can stand=
up
and deny it until the cows come home, but we know how it works. We also know h=
ow
access to information works, and the other day the minister accused me of
blaming the officials, and it was all up to the officials for blanking out
certain documentation. Well, there is another opportunity there. I have seen
where the Deputy Minister of Executive Council Office comes into the execut=
ive
offices with an ATIPP request and asks for polit=
ical
guidance about which sections should be blanked out and which sections
returned. Does the minister expect us to believe that didn’t happen in
this case? Well, we didn’t just fall off the turnip truck last night.=
We know how th=
is
government operates. We saw it with the We heard promi=
ses of
other processes to investigate this matter. As a matter of fact, the Premier
used it to deflect a call for a judicial inquiry. Did it ever happen? No.
There’s a case in point, Mr. Chair. This minister =
continues
to deny everything. We’re in a position where we need certain
documentation to prove our case, yet this government refuses to provide it.=
In the past,
I’ve compared this to other forums. These other forums are far more
accountable than this forum. For instance, if this were a hearing, especial=
ly
before a quasi-judicial board — in the past I’ve been a partici=
pant
in a couple of Then when we f=
inally
get information through the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy=
office, we see evidence that contradic=
ts the
minister’s denial. It’s in black and white. Then when we ask him
— when we confront the minister with the evidence and the context of =
how
he previously emphatically denied any privatization was ever occurring R=
12;
what do we get? Well, not much; just a bunch of old Hansard quotes <=
span
class=3DGramE>that are no longer relevant. The minister might think =
he is
somehow getting the public onside when he does that, but when we in the opp=
osition
hear that, we know it’s a sign the government has nothing of substanc=
e to
say. So that tells the story. Again, this is the government that campaigned on being open,
accountable, and fiscally responsible. Well, so much for open and accountab=
le.
We’ll get to fiscally responsible a little later because on the desk =
in
front of me we have the Auditor General’s report, and there are sever=
al
aspects relating to fiscal responsibility that this government needs to have
some flame brought to its toes. If you roll al=
l this
up, it really tells a rather disparaging story, and I’m sorry Yukoners
have to endure this type of a situation because most would prefer that we l=
ive
in a democracy with the proper checks and balances. What I’m saying h=
ere
today is that those proper checks and balances don’t exist in our
political system. We don’t have the tools to get information requeste=
d.
There is no higher being in this Assembly — we can look at the Speake=
r,
but this is beyond the Speaker’s jurisdiction. There’s no Chair=
of
this Assembly who can order information be produced. There’s nothing.=
At
the end of the day, it all comes down to the next election. That’s wh=
at
it comes down to. As mentioned e=
arlier,
I certainly hope that Yukoners don’t forget these examples when they =
cast
their ballots in the next election, whenever that might be. Yukoners demand
accountability from their government. They demand openness, and they
aren’t getting it. This government promised those things but hasnR=
17;t
delivered. Again, is ther=
e some
chair of this Assembly, or some higher being who can make it happen? The an=
swer
is no. Simply, and again, the answer is, the next
election. This government will have lots to be held accountable for in the =
next
election. We know the plan is to further mortgage Yukoners’ future wi=
th
all kinds of spending announcements for money it doesn’t have —
perhaps for money it hopes to get at some future point in time. As mentioned
the other day, money can’t buy trust. The government’s past rec=
ord
is what can buy trust. There are plen=
ty of
instances that speak to the character of this government, that simply have =
led
Yukoners to believe they can’t trust this government. That’s why
Yukoners are crying out for good governance. Mr. Chair, I k=
now
you’re about to remind me to return to the topic at hand. I think at =
this
point both the minister and I have had sufficient preambles where we might
express on record our views about the bigger picture. I would urge us both =
to
focus on the issues at hand and bring the minister back to the questions I
asked at the outset about this whole initiative, about what he really expec=
ts
us to believe versus what really happened. I’ll be listening intently=
to
his response and hopefully he’ll answer the questions. Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
That was a marvelous election speech. I =
almost
felt like standing up and applauding him. I’m sure that both people w=
ho
were listening were very impressed with it. Let’s see what the member
opposite has done in his last comments. He claims that he has seen — I
believe that was the comment — the Deputy Minister of Executive Counc=
il
Office going into the Premier’s office to commit illegal acts, which =
is
tampering with an ATIPP request. I didn’t rise on a point of order, b=
ut
he has said that the Deputy Minister of Executive Council Office has commit=
ted
an illegal act and that the Premier — no, on a political level, we do=
not
see the ATIPP requests. I didn’t see some of these documents until Mo=
nday
or Tuesday, when the member stood up and referred to them. Of course, he
didn’t table them. He didn’t put them out. He didn’t give=
us
access to that. When I finally got them, it was kind of an eye-opener to see
how far that information was from reality. He, again, has=
been
very, very clear that the Liberals, if they were to come to government, wou=
ld
clearly interfere with corporate boards of directors. They would interfere =
with
other boards, which are 50 or 60 boards and over 600 people. They
have made it clear that they would interfere with the Peel management plan;
they’ve already come to conclusions. They don’t want to see the
process go. They don’t want to see an agreed-upon process that is wit=
hin
chapter 11. They don’t want to see that finished. They want to insert
their fingers and do it their way. They’ve wanted to interfere with t=
he
Water Board. They have come up with theories on interfering with land claim=
s.
We can’t go that way. We have agreements and we have procedures. This
government will follow those procedures, but the Liberals have been very cl=
ear
in this House in previous days, and they have been very clear today —
they will interfere. Now, I think a lot of Yukoners have to realize that wh=
en
you volunteer — and it is volunteering by application — for a
board, it brings some perks. It might bring perhaps, depending on the level=
of
the board, a per diem, but it also brings in a great responsibility and a l=
egal
liability. How can you be liable for the board’s decisions and respon=
sible
for the board’s decisions if a Liberal member is going to put his fin=
ger
into it and change it around? We can’t do it that way, so I’d l=
ike
him to say how he would recruit people for boards and committees. It
wouldn’t, simply, be possible. He refers to Y=
ukoners
crying out. Well, I have to say, I don’t hear a lot of crying out. Pe=
ople
are too busy working. They’re too busy raising their kids, getting th=
em
into good schools, with good teachers, enjoying clean water and a safe envi=
ronment. Now, he keeps
referring to the application to the Management Board. Again, it was done by=
the
Yukon Housing Corporation Board of Directors, and I will read this: “=
…Yukon
Housing Corporation is seeking approval to remove any pre-payment penalties=
on
the Yukon Housing Corporation home-owned mortgage loans and so encourage th=
is
group of clients to transfer their loans to the banks and pay out their deb=
t to
Yukon Housing Corporation. The Yukon Housing Corporation Board of Directors=
has
already approved this course of action.” That was the request. It had
nothing to do with selling off loans. Now, the member opposite keeps referr=
ing
to that. He keeps commenting that this is some nefarious plot, but I have to
point out that, as the member sort of bumbles along — and to use an
allegory, in his Inspector Clouseau style — and tries to look at
these things — Chair’s statement Chair: &=
#8194;Order please. I think attrib=
uting a
member’s comments as “bumbles along” was probably ruled o=
ut
of order in the past. If it hasn’t been, I will say right now that th=
at
it is not a term that we should be using. Mr. Kenyon, could you please steer
away from using those personal comments. Thank you. Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
I apologize, Mr. Chair, but I do have to=
still
use the allegory, which has been approved in this House as being in order, =
that
there is some similarity to Inspector Clouseau =
trying
to collect this information. A Management B=
oard
submission that is seeking approval to remove the prepayment penalties R=
12;
that has been discussed and it has been approved by the board of directors
independently. I don’t have the ATIPP request. I don’t have what
was provided to the opposition, but I do know that the recommendation to su=
bmit
it is signed by the deputy minister, who in this case is the president of Y=
ukon
Housing Corporation and approved by the minister. Yes, I approve that that =
be
forwarded to Management Board. It has nothing=
to do
with privatizing or selling off, as the member has come up with other times=
in
this House. It has nothing to do with selling off assets. It has nothing to=
do
with selling off futures. It doesn’t even have anything to do with se=
lling
off pickup trucks, which was one of his last escapades in this House, claim=
ing
that we were selling off pickup trucks. I’m sorr=
y, Mr.
Chair, do I have the floor or would the member opposite have the decency to=
say
his comments on — Chair’s statement Chair: Order please. Mr. Kenyon does have the f=
loor.
I would encourage all members to direct their comments through the Chair, b=
ut I
would also encourage all members to focus on the debate at hand and try to
refrain from personalizing the debate. Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Saying that, let’s take a look at =
that
same Management Board’s submission and let’s take a look at a
section called “planned results and significant implications”.
“This reduction will,” — and I read, “This reduction
will involve the transfer of the lower risk loans to the banks,” R=
12; in
other words, allowing people to switch voluntarily their mortgages to
potentially lower interest rates, or, more likely — and again, when t=
his
was done, the interest rates on a variable mortgage were down around 1.5
percent. I know one person who had a very variable at 1.5 percent. So, it m=
ade
sense, because some our mortgages are as high as 7.9, I believe, in going b=
ack
to those years — 7.9 percent. It’s not only a financial ben=
efit to
the individual applicant, but the applicant may want to — even doing =
it
at the same interest rate — utilize plans for banks, such as lines of
credit, which would allow them to put money into their child’s education, their own educa=
tion,
buy vehicles or buy cabins — whatever they want to do with it,
that’s their business. Yukon Housing Corporation does not allow that,=
so
it gives more flexibility. If we go back =
to my
reading here: “This then leaves the higher-risk and lower-value loans=
in
the portfolio, which will increase the percentage of discount rate applied =
to
the portfolio if it is to be sold as a unit through securitization. Yukon H=
ousing
Corporation will return to Management Board by As I mentioned=
, the
corporate board of directors has that ability anyway. They were simply aski=
ng
Management Board before coming to government with what they were going to d=
o,
to ask for an analysis. That’s what they did. What we hear from the L=
iberal
members is that they wouldn’t ask for an analysis or they wouldn̵=
7;t
pay any attention to the analysis. They would simply put their finger into =
the
board of directors and stir it up a little bit. I should be sp=
ecific
here that home ownership clients can refinance any time — any time th=
at
they want — and they’ve done that for years and years. This is =
all
about eliminating the payout penalty. It had nothing to do with the mortgage
per se; anybody with a mortgage can pay it out. This Management Board
submission was to eliminate that three-month, I think was the average ̵=
2;
or three months was the way it was done — penalty which, for some peo=
ple,
could be a very significant chunk of cash. We want to work with clients. We
want to work with people to allow this to give them flexibility in their li=
ves.
The Liberals a=
re now
telling us that they wouldn’t do that. They wouldn’t do that.
Mortgages are mortgages; let them stand. In fact, the Leader of the Liberal
Party has stated many times that he doesn’t believe in mortgages, whi=
ch
is frightening — to me, anyway. Basically, what he has said in the Ho=
use
is we should be living any way we can and saving up our money until we get =
the
average price of a house and then we can go out and buy it with cash. Mortgages are =
useful
— properly controlled and maintained — and that is what this pr=
ogram
really looks at. Again I have to
express my surprise, concern, everything else, that when we look at the bud=
get
that we are supposedly discussing, debating — whatever word you want =
to
use for it — what the member opposite has completely missed, what the
Liberal Party has completely missed, is that we’ve added money into t=
he
mortgage portfolio. How does he
rationalize an organization that — a government that puts money into =
the
corporation, allows the board of directors the flexibility to go further
— $7.195 million added to the budget, yet this Liberal Member for Klu=
ane
stands up and says that proves they’re trying to privatize it. Good L=
ord,
what a conclusion to come to on that. Maybe he came to that conclusion on one o=
f his
walks with the spruce grouse, but I just can’t imagine where this is
coming from. I mean, did we do such a horrible job of trying to sell someth=
ing
off that, instead, we put in an additional $6 million for mortgage financing
loans and another $1.14 million for the owner-builder loans mortgages? The
supplementary budget, which I would ask to drag the member opposite back to=
, adds
an additional $14,000 on mortgage financing loans and an additional $130,00=
0,
so that brings us up to $7.284 million. I bring his attention to page 17-3 =
of
the Supplementary Estimates No. 1,
2010-11; he obviously hasn’t read them because he’s still
complaining and claiming that we’re trying to sell a portfolio off. D=
id
we do such a poor job that we did that by putting in over $7 million? That
makes no sense at all. But if we go b=
ack and
look at some of the things we have been doing and how we have been spending=
our
time, as I’ve already mentioned, we’ve increased the inventory =
of
affordable housing to seniors and elders with the completion of everything =
from
the athletes village to a nine-unit seniors building in Haines Junction. I
mean, I can go on and on through We completed &=
#8212;
which I didn’t mention before — the construction of two staff
housing units in The seniors bu=
ilding
in It is all obvi=
ously
done to promote the ability of seniors and elders to stay in that community=
, to
be supported by their family and not, as the Liberals have said several tim=
es
in the House, that for medical problems, they should simply drive to We are buildin=
g a
hospital there, both for the residents of The eight-unit=
Teslin
seniors building — again, it promotes independent living; it’s =
an
opportunity for seniors to reside in that barrier-free environment. They st=
ay
in their own community. It’s being done by Thomas Contracting of Tesl=
in.
We’re very close to having that complete and dealing with the inevita=
ble
small deficiencies — we’re good to go. The six-unit F=
aro seniors building also promotes independent living and =
keeps
people in their community. We did have a grand opening there. It was held o=
n We felt that it
probably wasn’t going to accomplish a lot, to give small projects, or
small parts of that, so instead, we went for the construction of a six-unit
building, four three-bedrooms and two four-bedrooms, or something like that.
The completion is very close. When they come out of that, and they come out
into some other projects that we are talking about, Kwanlin Dun will have a
good contracting company to build housing; they’ll have a good
understanding of SuperGreen technology and barrier-free technology. It̵=
7;s
a win-win-win situation. With the involved challenge and some of the people
down there, it was just an incredible success. Some of the ot=
her
things that we got involved in, of course, was the 2009 flood relief program
and the flooding in 2009, primarily in Rock Creek and This is a litt=
le
smattering of some of the things that we have done to meet our commitment to
achieve a better quality of life. We’ve built all of these additional
units and we’ve renovated lots more. Again, compared to previous
governments in the last several governments, zero — absolutely nothin=
g.
So to get up in the House and be critical of what we’ve done —
I’ll agree that there’s always the possibility and you’d =
like
to do more. We’ve done a heck of a lot more than the previous governm=
ents
and I put that on the table. Again, ask the members opposite: how in the wo=
rld
do you take a $7-million investment and try to claim that doesn’t exi=
st?
What’ll be interesting, too, is how do you claim secrecy over a docum=
ent
when I’m sitting here reading from it. Maybe the member opposite will
curl up tonight with a copy of the Blues and enjoy that. Mr. McRobb: Money can’t buy trust. I’ll =
say it
again. The minister likes to repeat how the government has spent $7 million=
and
somehow that should remove any allegation that it was trying to privatize t=
hese
mortgages. Well, the Yukon Party government might have viewed that mechanis=
m as
a patch to this whole thing. It goes back to my opening comment — case
closed. The minister w=
ent on
to make a number of incorrect conclusions, as he frequently does. I need to
stand on this floor and re-enter this political debate we’re having, =
even
though I challenged him to refocus on the issues. By the way, Mr. Chair, no=
ne
of the questions I asked were answered. The issue I wa=
nt to
counter is this whole perception he has created that a Liberal government w=
ould
somehow interfere with officials and board members, and everybody should be
very concerned. Nothing could be further from — I’ll choose the
word carefully, because I know the “T” word is not allowed in h=
ere,
so I’ll just say — reality. Chair’s statement Chair: Order please. Although ingenious and fun=
ny,
implying something is the same thing as saying it. You can’t say that=
you
can’t use the “T” word” because you just did. IR=
17;m
glad you agree with me. So p=
lease
don’t imply something and then say, “I won’t use the impl=
ied
word,” because by implying it and then saying it, you do use the word=
. Mr. McRobb: This whole notion the minister continual=
ly
projects about how this phantom, big, bad, Liberal government would somehow
deprive officials of their anonymity or independence to do their jobs and t=
ry
to politically manipulate everything is completely incorrect. It is a
completely wrong assumption by this minister. We can look at=
what
this Yukon Party government has done and arrive at many conclusions that le=
ad
us to believe that is exactly what has happened under Yukon Party rule, and
I’ve alluded to that already this afternoon. We challenged the minist=
er
to provide the documentation. He refuses. I asked him if he has ever even s=
een
the document, and he refuses to answer that. Well, again, M=
r.
Chair, there’s lots wrong with the process we use in here, and that is
why Yukoners do want to see this Legislature improved, and that is why an
all-party motion was passed regarding the need for legislative reform. But =
the
Yukon Party government hasn’t even appointed a member to that committ=
ee
or even called a meeting. We on this side had our members appointed before =
the
spring sitting even started, so this is another case in point. I’ll get=
back to
the Yukon Housing Corporation issues. The minister went on to say that at t=
he
very top of the command chain is the president and chair. Well, I will agree
insofar as that’s the way it should be, but, as put on record earlier
this afternoon, there are other opportunities that exist for someone else t=
o be
that top person and that someone else is either the minister or the Premier=
. We’re ge=
tting
back into the short arm’s-length relationship. The minister denies ev=
er
giving an instruction to the independent corporation, with one exception an=
d,
Mr. Chair, I won’t go there. The minister would like to use that exam=
ple
and try to create — Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Mr. McRobb: — and wrap himself in it, as sugge=
sted
by the Member for Copperbelt, but we won’t do that. We’ll do our
best to keep our discussion on a higher level. Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Mr. McRobb: I notice some members find that amusing,=
Mr.
Chair, but I think the record speaks for itself. The record is a public
document. The people can see that document. They can’t see the Manage=
ment
Board submission or other documents from the Yukon Energy Corporation
privatization scandal because this government refuses to provide them. I also note th=
at
it’s my understanding that this corporation hasn’t been called =
for
debate in two and a half years in this Assembly and I think that is worth s=
ome
discussion. I think Yukoners need to know why. Before the minister gives up=
and
repeats an answer I’ve heard before, I think I’ll put some info=
rmation
on the record, especially for those who are unfamiliar with how our procedu=
res
in this Assembly work. The order of d=
ebate in
the afternoon is 100 percent at the call of the government in power. The
opposition has zero input into which departments or corporations are called=
for
debate. The opposition House leaders are informed at about In previous si=
ttings
we’ve asked specifically for the Yukon Housing Corporation to be call=
ed
for debate, but the Yukon Party government did not oblige that request. Those requests=
were
asked several times, starting at the House leaders level. They graduated to=
the
floor of the Assembly through notices of motion and so on, yet the governme=
nt
denied those requests. Is that being accountable to go two and a half years
without allowing a debate on this corporation? I’ll take a leap of fa=
ith
and say that I would expect Yukoners to say no to that question. Yukoners
expect all departments and corporations to be scrutinized at least on an an=
nual
basis, given the fact we have two sittings in the Assembly each year, for a
total of 60 sitting days. That didn’t happen. There was a similar case
last year when officials from Yukon Energy Corporation/Yukon Development
Corporation were not permitted to attend before members of this Assembly. In
the 2009 calendar year, those corporations escaped accountability in this A=
ssembly.
There are all kinds of examples there. When the minis=
ter
stands up and we hear the accolades of how this Yukon Party government is o=
pen,
accountable, and fiscally responsible, and so on and so forth, we know those
words ring rather hollow in terms of what, in fact, has actually transpired.
These are some of the comments the minister made that I wanted to rebut.
I’ll just conclude that by saying he wrongly concluded that somehow w=
e in
the opposition are attacking the officials when we ask questions about minu=
tes
from board meetings, about this government’s involvement in something=
. A
reasonable person would fail to draw the connection. The Yukon Hous=
ing
Corporation minutes are part of the material we have at our disposal. The
questions we have asked are based on parts of those documents and the quest=
ions
are pointed to the minister who is responsible. In this case, the minister =
has
denied things that were going on in the corporation, but the documentation
proves otherwise. Now, we’ve heard the minister say that he wasn̵=
7;t
— he point-blank denied that the privatization was occurring; he did =
not
even go so far as to say he was unaware. He just point-blank denied it. Now=
, I
recall a level of scrutiny that was upheld by certain other governments in =
this
Assembly in the past, where the ministers were fully expected to be aware of
what was happening in the departments and corporations for which
they’re responsible, and there is an automatic connection. Should anybody=
in
those departments or corporations be undertaking anything that could be an
issue to Yukoners, it was simply fair to ask the minister responsible about
those undertakings. That is simply what we’ve been doing. The Yukon P=
arty
did it when it was in opposition prior to September 1996. The other parties
have done that, yet this government somehow doesn’t live up to the
obligation of previous governments to accept responsibility for what the
ministers are responsible for. It goes back to some of the unanswered quest=
ions
that remain on the floor of this Assembly today. I’ll have to ask them
again and maybe we can get an answer this time. Does the minis=
ter
really expect us to believe he hasn’t seen the Management Board
submission? That is question one. Question two: does the minister really ex=
pect
us to believe this government had nothing to do with this secret privatizat=
ion
of Yukoners’ mortgages? Does he really=
expect
us to believe that all the officials and board members working for the Yukon
Housing Corporation, other government board members, including Management B=
oard
members, all acted on their own without any direction from this government,
without even a thumbs-up? Does this minister expect us to believe that?
I’ve just got a train of thought from something I was saying earlier
— to finish it off — and that is that one of the things I recall
from being in government in the first term was when a body like Management
Board, which is an important committee — predominantly focused on
financial matters of the government — expends the amount of resource
required to develop a submission, such as on this whole issue of privatizing
Yukoners’ mortgages, that in fact that simply does not happen without=
a
signal from the political level of government. It simply does=
not
happen. The government itself would be outraged if such a high-order commit=
tee
within this government embarked on something it did not politically support.
The Yukon Party would be outraged. Have there been any expressions of outra=
ge
at what happened from the government? No, not toward the committee, and I t=
hink
the reason why is obvious. The committee received its instructions from this
very government. The only outrage from this Yukon Party government about th=
is
whole matter is to us in opposition, who have be=
en
asking the questions. Well, to coin an old phrase: “Don’t shoot=
the
messenger.” We’re here, speaking on behalf of the public. As I mentioned=
before,
sometimes that can be a difficult job — asking hard questions and oft=
en
getting ridiculed in the process. But we knew that part of the job — =
at
least I did — when I ran again, so I fully expect it to be in my job
description to do that. I think the st=
ory is
starting to come together; people are connecting the dots about what has
transpired. I think one of the main things people are thinking about right =
now
is how could this Yukon Party government possibly do this on the heels of t=
he
whole We know these =
hard-working
officials and board members didn’t embark on this whole process witho=
ut
political direction. I’ve asked the minister two or three times now a
straightforward question and he has avoided it, each and every time. So I’ll =
ask him
one more time: will he ‘fess up to these questions? Chair: Order please. Committee of the Whole wil=
l recess
for 15 minutes. Recess Chair: Committee of the Whole will now come to =
order.
The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 22, Second Appropriation Act, 2010-11. We will now continue with Vo=
te
18, general debate on the Yukon Housing Corporation. Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
It’s good coming back from the rec=
ess,
so to speak. I suppose the bad news is I’ve completely forgotten what=
the
member opposite was asking. But the good news is that it has been the same
question over and over and over, so I’ll repeat the answer again, in =
case
he missed that part. The Yukon Hous=
ing
Corporation Board of Directors, doing their good work and diligence, review=
ed
what was happening potentially with the mortgage portfolio and the fact that
some of the mortgage portfolio was as high as 7.9 percent. People were comi=
ng
and asking that they wanted to perhaps dump their mortgage but they would o=
we
us our three-month penalty — not reasonable. I thought about when I
wanted to do that many years ago, back in my 20 years that I did in =
They then pass=
ed that
on to Management Board, which is responsible for reviewing and making
recommendations — and not only reviewing, but their job is basically to give pros and cons — what happen=
s if
this, what happens if that? — going back to the old George Carlin alb=
um:
what if we cross the international date line? Th=
ey
look at all of these things and sometimes they go into incredible detail. It
takes time — sometimes frustrating if you’re trying to get
something done — and Management Board Secretariat wants to look at it
more carefully, but it is certainly worthwhile for them to do it, and we de=
sperately
and greatly appreciate their good work. The Liberals, =
of
course, have basically said that they wouldn’t do that; they would si=
mply
go ahead. They’ve said that on a number of things. They have come to
conclusions on the Peel watershed things, completely ignoring the fact that
there’s chapter 11 of the Umb=
rella
Final Agreement. But they wouldn’t wait for that; they’d si=
mply
go ahead and do it. They’ve looked at that and a number of other thin=
gs
that make no sense. They have criticized the Water Board. They have looked =
at
land claims. They have done all of these various things. There is process, =
and
the process in this case was followed well. Now, for the m=
ember
opposite to come to that ad hominem argument of
allowing a home-ownership client flexibility wit=
h payout
provisions — that’s not privatization. It has nothing to do with
privatization. If a client or a person or a Yukoner has a mortgage with any
bank, they have the ability to go to the bank and say, “Gee, we’=
;d
like to pay it out.” Anything from an inheritance, to a bit of money,=
or
where it’s getting down to where our savings account is pretty close =
to
what’s owed, to “Gee, there’s a better rate down the
road.” For whatever r=
eason,
banks would say, no, you’ve signed a contract and, in this case, yes,
they’ve signed a contract. The Yukon Housing Corporation Board of
Directors was willing to allow that penalty to be waived within the contract
and, again, allowing that flexibility to a homeowner with a pay-out provisi=
on
is good management; it’s good government; it is not privatization. The
member opposite with his ad hominem arguments is
simply portraying that in a light that just makes no sense, as many things =
do,
of course. Now, the member
opposite — the Liberal opposition — has said that, gee, the Yuk=
on
Housing Corporation hasn’t been in here for a long period of time. I =
do
draw his attention to the Office of the Auditor General of These were tab=
led in
the Public Accounts Committee, or In terms of ca=
lling
departments, I think if the opposition asked reasonable questions and not so
many ad hominem questions, the debate would go
further and they would get much better information. They are not looking fo=
r information;
they’re looking for something else. It’s rather scary that ther=
e is
that little concern for the process that allows a time like this — a
question period — to get information and to have these discussions. He made the co=
mment a
few minutes ago that he would not interfere, or the Liberals would not
interfere, and I’m glad to hear that. We don’t either — we
haven’t — but everything he’s saying claims that’s a
good thing. So I have to say that maybe that isn’t a completely accur=
ate
statement. The Liberals have been very clear that they would interfere. They
would stick their arm — whether it’s a short or long arm —
into the pot and stir it and give absolute direction to corporations’
boards of directors. I don’t care if it’s the Advisory Council =
on Women’s
Issues, the member opposite is saying they would insert themselves and would
give direction to those advisory councils. Would that inc=
lude
local area planning councils? Would he involve himself with the Municipal Act and start interfering
under the Municipal Act and wit=
h some
of the municipal councils and try to give them direction? We don’t kn=
ow.
He’s not being forthcoming on that. It’s very easy to throw
accusations out. Again, to use an allegory, that was a great technique used=
by
the great Inspector Clouseau, but we have to de=
al
with facts on this side. We can’t go any other way and sort of wing i=
t as
we go and hope that something falls out of the trees. I won’t even go
there. Let’s drop that one because it is unparliamentary. It is just qui=
te
amazing how the member opposite can look at the budget, Vote 18, voted to d=
ate
$15,578,000. We’re requesting additional money for operation and
maintenance of $143,000, bringing it up to $15,721,000, and under capital
votes, $48,877,000. We’re asking for under this appropriation $8.818
million, to a total of $57,695,000. Again, so much of that — which we
could get into if anyone wanted to; we could discuss the budget and we could
get into the details of what’s there. When you look at home ownership,
mortgage-financing loans, an additional $14,000 and owner-build loans with =
an
additional $130,000, leaving this year in the budget — and this is all after the member opposite claims that he has stumbled i=
nto
this great document, which he is not accurately quoting — that brings=
us
to $7.294 million. It’s jus=
t over
$7 million that we’ve put into the mortgage portfolio. For anyone to
somehow claim and to think that that is trying to sell the portfolio is cer=
tainly
simply outside of my belief. Let’s go=
back
and look at some of the long-term things that we’ve done. Since all of
the Liberal critics seem to be asking the same question over and over ̵=
2; I
think there’s a very good definition of someone who keeps doing somet=
hing
and keeps thinking that they’re going to get different answers, but we
won’t go there either. We did make changes to the Yukon Housing Corpo=
ration
— or they did, I should say — social housing program that help =
us
identify applicants with the greatest housing needs and to serve them more
efficiently. These people could be, for example, victims of violence or peo=
ple
who require medical relocations. We recognize there is urgency to finding s=
afe,
stable accommodation for victims of violence and the Yukon Housing Corporat=
ion
policy addresses this. Applicants who=
are
victims of violence receive a higher point score than other applicants, whi=
ch
increase their likelihood of being housed more quickly. Based on numerous c=
onsultations
with stakeholders and women’s groups between 2004 and 2006, the Yukon
Housing Corporation determined that the group that was really in the highest
need was victims of violence, followed by seniors in rural In May 2009 the
governments of I should point=
out
that we had anticipated this. The government had anticipated it; the Yukon
Housing Corporation Board of Directors had anticipated it; so we were all s=
et
to go. We were all se=
t to start
tendering out some of these things and work quickly. We were able to allow =
the
Housing Corporation to upgrade social housing units throughout the <=
st1:State> Let’s lo=
ok at
some of the details of where that money went. In the community of Carcross,=
federal
funding was $162,895. In Carmacks, $=
101,187
came from the federal government. Yukon Housing Corporation put in an addit=
ional
$17,507, for a total of $118,694. In In Mayo, there=
is
$236,807. Yukon-wide in
non-incorporated communities, et cetera, federal funding was $359,780. That gives eve=
ryone a
pretty good overview of what happened. If we look at one individual project=
as
an example: Yukon Housing Corporation awarded a contract to Weitzel’s
Construction Limited in the amount of $1,839,000. Currently in Faro, seniors
housing is provided in four bungalows that do not have accommodating design
features that make them senior-friendly. When the new s=
eniors
residence is built, it is proposed that the bungalows would be reallocated =
to
social housing needs other than for seniors and this would help satisfy the
Faro housing association’s request for additional social housing. The Faro housi=
ng
association is a subset of the Yukon Housing Corporation. It looks at local
issues. Their location is on the website, should the Member for Kluane call
them and get his finger into that. I would suggest that he allow the boards=
and
committees to do their good work and not interfere with them. The overall
allocation of seniors housing in Faro would increase from four existing uni=
ts
to six new senior-friendly units. The Faro demographics show that currently,
Faro’s population in categories of 50 plus and 60 plus is higher than
other The 2003 data =
showed
Haines Junction leading in the percentage of population over 50, with Faro =
very
close behind. I have to point out, if the Member for Kluane has missed it, =
we
have built a nine-unit facility in Haines Junction. The five-year =
trend
shows that all communities have grown in overall population size, and the
people over 50 years of age in each community are forming a larger percenta=
ge
of the overall demographic. The seniors demographic in =
Faro
has grown by a greater proportion in the last five years than any ot=
her
community, and that’s why I picked that out. I have to point out again
that 90 percent of the recoverable funds from So with those =
bits of
information, I’ll allow the Member for Kluane to stand and again ask =
the
same questions over again. Mr. McRobb: We just heard the minister give another
20-minute speech that did everything but answer the questions that were pos=
ed
to him for about a third time. He ridicules the questions and somehow feels
he’s not compelled to answer them and that somehow I should feel insu=
lted
by asking these questions. Well, I’ve already put on the record that
I’m prepared to step up to the plate and deliver, in terms of fulfill=
ing
my job responsibilities, and I would encourage the minister to do the same.=
There are quit=
e a few
things he put on the record during his 20-minute speech, some of which
I’ll respond to and some of which I’ll just ignore. One of his =
favourite aspects we’ve heard about a few times=
now
is how these mortgages were not privatization. An example he gave in detail=
was
how a client coming to the corporation, after discussion, was steered to a
private sector lending institution. He went on to explain how that’s =
not
privatization. I agree with t=
he
minister in that instance, but that’s not what we’re talking ab=
out,
is it, Mr. Chair? We’re talking about something much bigger. We’=
;re
talking about the privatization of all existing mortgages — the compl=
ete
portfolio, some $40 million. These are not =
new
mortgage applications; these are existing mortgages. One might wond=
er why
the government would embark on such an initiative. Keeping it secret is ano=
ther
question, of course. Well, after we obtain results from the access-to-infor=
mation
request, we obtained certain documentation. Within those documents, the
following quote can be found: “The corporation
does not have enough cash in its bank account to pay all of its expenditures
for the fiscal year.” So, rather than assist the corporation, the
minister had the corporation — at least, there’s evidence to
indicate so — embark on this secret privatization initiative. =
The minister e=
ven had
Management Board do the analysis, which he won’t answer for, which he
refuses to provide to us, which he declines to take any responsibility for.
What did we hear instead? Numerous times now, he has mentioned how much mon=
ey
he has put into the mortgages on behalf of the government — and
I’ve already spoken to that — how that occurred after this priv=
atization
initiative was attempted; it didn’t occur before, it occurred after. =
So
the government saw it as a way to patch this whole issue and hopefully it w=
ould
go away, from its perspective. Well, it’s not going away because
it’s very important that we establish for the record what indeed happ=
ened
here. Some might ask, why is it important? Well,=
there
are several answers. Yukoners with mortgages are very concerned about what
transpired behind the scenes. Others are concerned that the minister denied=
it
on record and then later we find out the opposite was happening. Other Yuko=
ners
are concerned that this Yukon Party government will embark on a second
privatization scheme on the tails of the whole Yukon Energy Corporation
privatization scheme that backfired — very concerned. What does this=
all
speak to? It speaks to trust of government. We already know how Yukoners fe=
el
about this government, following the whole privatization scandal surrounding
the Energy Corporation. We can presume they’ll feel similarly when th=
ey
discover what really transpired here. Part of the re=
ason for
this is the Premier came out and boldly declared all sorts of things to the=
Nevertheless,
we’re not taking up that issue today. It connects to what’s
happening here because, again, it’s all about trust. That equates to =
good
governance, which happens to be the top issue of importance to Yukoners, ac=
cording
to recent polls. That is why we’re taking the time to ask this minist=
er
and this government about what happened here. That is why we=
ask
questions over, to try to get to the bottom of the matter, because thatR=
17;s
what Yukoners expect us to do. That is why we’ve requested the
documentation. I could invert=
these
arguments and ask them rhetorically: for instance, why isn’t the
government providing this documentation? What is it trying to hide? If the
government wasn’t trying to hide something, shouldn’t it provide
the opposition members with the documentation requested? Exactly — th=
at
hits the nail on the head. As a matter of=
fact,
looking at the bigger picture, this government is now in its fifth year of =
this
term, the longest ever term in the history of any Yukon government, without=
an
election — it’s in the fifth year. Even a political neophyte co=
uld
reasonably predict that any government in such a circumstance would be
extremely sensitive about any emerging scandals, and would scurry to hose d=
own
any brush fires before they got out of control. Well, that brings us to the
issue before us. This issue eme=
rged
last Thursday, so the brush — if you will — was set afire last
Thursday. What did the government do to put out the fire? Did it table
documents? Has it answered these questions? No. Is it reasonable to conclud=
e,
if the government was innocent of all these allegations, that it would have
sent the fire truck to hose down the brush fire with the material and the
answers to the questions asked in order to extinguish the flames? Of course=
; it
would be reasonable to expect that result. Why hasn’t it happened? We=
ll,
obviously where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Certainly ther=
e seems
to be a lot of smoke and mirrors on this issue. We asked the questions R=
12;
the pointed questions, as the Premier likes to refer to them — the
heat-seeking questions. But did we get anything in return? No. We get inste=
ad
rhetoric about what some previous member said to previous government, eons =
ago,
which is no longer relevant. That’s the kind of response we get from =
this
government. Well, isn’t that interesting. It’s too bad voters in
the last election, when the government was unveiling its new campaign platf=
orm
on being open, accountable and fiscally responsible, couldn’t fast-fo=
rward
to this point in time to see how it would all play out. The Also it should=
be
mentioned that this has happened amidst record budgets and a reviving econo=
my,
thanks largely to rebounding global commodity prices and the That’s w=
hat
he’s doing, and that’s why I refuse to engage in these discussi=
ons
about quoting members, going back years now — these irrelevant commen=
ts.
But we realize the government is in denial. The minister has nothing better=
to
say. He can’t give me answers to the questions. He can’t table =
the
documents because he’s under orders not to. Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Point of order Chair: Ms. Horne, on a point of order. Hon. Ms. Horne: <=
span
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Standing Order 19(h), uttering a deliber=
ate
falsehood. Chair’s ruling Chair: &=
#8194;On the point of order, there is no point =
of
order; it’s just a dispute among members. Mr. McRobb:=
195; Well, I can understand how members opposi=
te are
feeling sensitive about all of this, because Yukoners are beginning to see =
the
bigger picture. They have had four years now to connect the dots. It’s goi=
ng to be
very difficult to fool anybody next time around, and these members know it.=
The
orders have come from the corner office. In case the minister doesn’t
understand, the corner office is the corner office in this building: the Pr=
emier’s
office. And, to some degree, I can sympathize with this minister because I
know, deep down, he probably does want to answer the questions; he probably
does want to table the information, but he can’t. He can’t beca=
use
the Premier has ordered him not to. Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Point of order Chair: &=
#8194;The Hon. Ms. Horne, on a point of order.<=
o:p> Hon. Ms. Horne: <=
span
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Standing Orders 19(g) imputes false=
or
unavowed motives to another member. Chair: Mr. Inverarity, on a point of order. Mr. Inverarity: <=
span
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> I don’t believe that 19(g) qualifi=
es
here; I don’t think there is a point of order. Chair: Before I rule on the point of order, whe=
n members
stand up on a point of order, could members please give me input on the poi=
nt
of order. Don’t stand up and tell me what to rule. Chair’s ruling Chair: On this point of order, the Chair believ=
es it
is also just a dispute among members. Mr. McRobb: Well, it’s too bad these ministers
across the way can’t stand up to the orders. They’re good at
standing up on these points of order in here, but they don’t stand up=
to
the Premier when he gives the orders. We saw it on the The minister started to rattle off =
numbers
from the budget — Some
Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Point of order Chair: Hon. Ms. Taylor, on a point of order. Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
Earlier today, I believe that the t=
erm
“bumbling” was ruled out of order, and yet “rattling on=
8221;
— I would assume that would be ruled out of order also. Chair: Mr. McRobb on the point of order. Mr. McRobb: I would argue there is a distinct differ=
ence
between quote, “bumbling along”, unquote, and, quote,
“rattling off”, in terms of numbers, unquote. Chair’s ruling Chair: With regard to the point of order, the C=
hair
did rule earlier about personalizing the debate, and accusing a member of
“bumbling on” was personalizing the debate. Telling or accusing=
a
member of “rattling off” could also be
interpreted as personalizing the debate. In this case, throughout the entire
day, each member from both sides has been personalizing the debate and thro=
wing
unique comments back and forth, to say it in a very diplomatic way. I would
encourage both members to not personalize the debate. I would also ask memb=
ers
to leave the Chair to make my own rulings and to remain quiet while I deliv=
er
those rulings. Mr. McRobb: All right, thank you, Mr. Chair. I’=
;m
sure there are people in the Hansar=
d
office who would be pleased to discover that there are unique aspects occur=
ring
on the floor this afternoon in terms of what has been said. Chair’s statement Chair: &=
#8194;Order please. When the Chair makes ruling=
s and
tries to be uniformly fair from all sides, then to have the rulings critiqu=
ed
is not appreciated, and for one, it’s not in order. Mr. McRobb, yo=
u have
about a minute and a half left, could you please focus on Vote 18, the Yukon
Housing Corporation? Mr. McRobb:=
195; Yes, Mr. Chair. Well, before I pass the f=
loor
over to the minister, there are some questions, as mentioned, that would be
repeated because there are no answers. I see the Premier and he looks like
he’s prepared to stand up and answer. Well, isn’t that something
— isn’t that something. You know, here’s another opportun=
ity
where we probably won’t get a chance to respond to what he says today,
because the proceeding time will have elapsed. So everybody be on guard for
some big challenges from the Premier for me to get up and respond to, but
unfortunately perhaps we can continue it on some other day. Anyway, does t=
he
minister really expect us to believe he hasn’t seen the document
requested? Secondly, does he really expect us to believe this government had
nothing to do with the secret privatization of Yukoners’ mortgages?
Thirdly, does he really expect us to believe that all these officials and b=
oard
members all acted independently, without as little as a thumbs-up from him =
or
the Premier? Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
Certainly a thumbs-down on the question =
would
be in order on that one. If I can bring=
it to
the member’s attention, he keeps asking me to table documents that he
already has. I find that humorous, at best. He already has them; he’s
welcome to read them, if he took the time, but he has already proven that he
didn’t read the budget — $7-million point-something into the bu=
dget
to bolster the mortgage portfolio. He didn’t mention that; he
didn’t notice that. He has referred to a few things in there that aga=
in
make little sense. There is a Man=
agement
Board submission; I understand he has a copy of that. I didn’t see it=
in
its final form until recently, although, yes, it was approved to go through,
coming directly from the Yukon Housing Corporation. That’s what they =
do.
We have to look at a variety of different aspects on this. Again, the member
has the document. He’s not reading, so I’ll read it — I t=
hink
this is the third or fourth time. “…=
Yukon
Housing Corporation is seeking approval to remove any pre-payment penalties=
on
the Yukon Housing Corporation home owned mortgage loans, and so encourages =
this
group of clients to transfer their loans to the banks and pay out their deb=
t to
Yukon Housing Corporation.” The Yukon Hous=
ing
Corporation board of directors has already approved this course of action. =
The
board is an independent corporate board. They made a decision. They asked t=
he
government in the form of the Management Board Secretariat to review that, =
to
give options, which is what they do — everything is always option one,
two, three, four — and to look at the various ramifications of what w=
ould
happen. That’s what was approved to go through there; however, when t=
hat
was actually done, it never came back to Management Board, it never came ba=
ck to
Cabinet, and government never considered it. Again, the mem=
ber
opposite is trying to claim that allowing a home=
-ownership
client flexibility with the payout provisions is privatization. That is sim=
ply
beyond comprehension. His comment a moment ago — which, actually, I f=
ind
somewhat humorous: he says that a member’s past statements are not re=
levant.
Are today’s statements relevant? Is he saying that they aren’t
relevant? I’d agree with him, frankly, but that’s perhaps anoth=
er
story. I still have to go back to that famous statesman Samuel Adams, and I
quote: “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irat=
e,
tireless minority, keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.” =
I really do in=
vite the
Member for Kluane to join in serving Yukoners — not setting brush fir=
es
around them — and deal with the documents that he has in front of him.
The submission was to look at what would happen if we waived the penalty
payouts — the three-month penalty payments — if people wanted to
move their mortgage to a bank. It gives flexibility. It allows peop=
le to
move to banks — banks or anything — that would be at a lower
interest rate, and it would give them the ability to get into a line of cre=
dit
that would allow them to pay for education, their own or their
children’s. It would allow toys, cabins, and snowmobiles —
whatever. These are things that the Yukon Housing Corporation does not do.
Especially in a time when we had interest rates as high as 7.9 percent and
banks were as low as 1.5 percent, people were coming in and saying, “=
We
would like to pay this out; what’s going to happen?” How many
people read exactly the fine print on the mortgage? How many real estate ag=
ents
would go over that with them? According to t=
he
Leader of the Liberal Party, he doesn’t believe in mortgages, so let&=
#8217;s
assume that that isn’t in his purview. We have to go back and look at
this, and here is the member who is demanding, publicly, that we table a
document that he already has in his hand. I do have to go back to Hansard, and I quote from November=
7,
2001, from this same member: “… when you vote Liberal, you̵=
7;re
prepared to throw your values out the window; you’re prepared to forg=
et
everything you have heard, and hang on for the ride and expect darn near
anything they’ll throw at you, because the decisions will be made in =
the
backroom with their backroom friends.” I tend to agree, but maybe the memb=
er
opposite is right when he says past statements aren’t relevant, but it
does raise the question again: are the statements today relevant? I am not
really sure that he wants to go there, but if he wants to, I guess thatR=
17;s
part of it. Again, the con=
tinuing
demands for documents that he has, the continuing comments — I
can’t use that one — here we listen to his election speeches; he
seems to be early on that, but he has some difficulties. The one thing that=
I
do find interesting though is he referred moments ago to the longest servin=
g government,
and that’s true — it is the longest serving government. We do h=
ave
a five-year term, but I would remind him that it was the Liberal Party, in
their very short-lived time — shortest lived majority government in t=
he
history of the Commonwealth of Nations; I mean, that takes some skill ̵=
2;
as a Liberal government, they were the ones who approved a five-year term w=
hile
they were in power. The act came into effect in April 2003, and that’s
what we live with today — a five-year term, but it was the Liberals w=
ho
put it there. So, again, may=
be the
member should get out more and read some of his own literature and try to
understand some of the things that are going on. So, again, may=
be the
member should get our more and read some of his own literature and try to
understand some of the things that are going on. The member opposite has so=
far
insulted the bureaucracy; he has insulted some of our great staff; he has
insulted a deputy minister. The Liberals have basically said they would
interfere with the board, they would interfere w=
ith
the Water Board and with the Yukon Housing Corporation Board. They would not
honour chapter 11 in the Umbrella F=
inal
Agreement, because they would interfere with the process. These are all
very set, stable, agreed-upon processes. On the governm=
ent
side, we are required to live with those processes — the Liberal
opposition, not so much. They can sort of wing it as they go. It just simply
makes no sense to me — some of the comments that have come through he=
re. Even going bac=
k, this
member and others have made the comment that they weren’t part of the
Liberal government when that happened. They weren’t, but they researc=
hed
all of this and came to the conclusion that they wanted to be a part of it.=
I
just find it amazing that a $17-million project, which ballooned into a
$42-million project, took me $3 million to get out of the court cases. Does=
the
Member for Kluane consider this good government? We didn’t. He researched =
all of
that and very much went out of his way and specifically sought that party
out. We really at t=
he time
didn’t think that the investment in the sawmill=
span>
in Again, the Mem=
ber from
Kluane looked at that, he looked that over, thought it was a pretty good id=
ea
and he joined the Liberal Party. He thought that was something that he real=
ly
should get into. There’s a whole background of questions that he shou=
ld
be asking, things that he should be going into — Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Hon. Mr. Kenyon: =
No — another thing that we canR=
17;t
get into here. The thing that I still find the most amazing is that in the
budget — and what we’re supposed to be debating today, or at le=
ast
discussing is seven point something million dollars in the budget to add to=
the
mortgage portfolio — this member thinks that that’s trying to h=
ide
it. It’s tabled. That’s what we’re supposed to be debatin=
g,
if he ever got around to it. Instead he comes up with a litany of ad hominem arguments that simply make precious little se=
nse
and questions that are really not relevant, I think, to the whole matter. B=
ut I
do save my discussion because of time to get into the questions that he sho=
uld
be asking and seems to completely miss. With that, I’ll save those
arguments and discussions until later, and I move that we report progress.<=
o:p> Chair: It has been moved by Mr. Kenyon that Com=
mittee
of the Whole report progress. Motion agreed to Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
<=
/span>I
move that the Speaker do now resume the Chair. Chair: It has been moved by Ms. Taylor that the
Speaker do now resume the Chair. Motion agreed to Speaker resumes the Chair Speaker: I will now call the House to order. May =
the
House have a report from the Chair of Committee of the Whole? Chair’s report Mr. Nordick: Committee of the Whole has consider=
ed
Bill No. 22, Second Appropriation A=
ct,
2010-11, and directed me to report progress. Speaker: You have heard the report from the Chair=
of
Committee of the Whole. Are you agreed? Some Hon. Members: <=
/b>Agreed. Some Hon. Members: <=
/b>Disagreed. Speaker: I declare the report carried. The time being=
The House adjourned at seniors buildings are built to promote independent liv=
ing
and the opportunity for seniors to reside in a barrier-free environment, th=
us
enabling seniors to remain in their community. I realize that the opposition
would prefer that medical patients simply drive to , I believe. As we were getting the tour =
of
this 12-unit facility, we heard quite a bit of screaming and yelling from t=
he
living room and, slightly alarmed, I went in there to find two women in the=
ir
90s watching a Vancouver Canucks game; one wasn’t a real Canucks fan =
and
they were having a heck of a good time. It sold me on this type of housing.
Otherwise, they would be sitting in an apartment somewhere relatively alone=
and
isolated..CanadaYukonZircon Lane — we can’t forget that. So w=
e have
had a flood relief program on that; it’s well underway; in fact I thi=
nk
it’s pretty close to concluded, but there are still a few outstanding
issues. We institute a requirement whereby clients accessing loan funding f=
or
new home ownership construction are required to build to Yukon Housing
Corporation’s energy efficiency standards., escaping during the Rae regime. It made=
sense
to the board of directors, and I think they did their good work by saying t=
hat
they wanted to look at that. So they passed a motion, and it was recommende=
d at
that point that the board of directors approve a one-time offer of the remo=
val
of any prepayment penalties for Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage clients =
and
encourage those clients to transfer their mortgage to a bank.Canada are through the economic action plan.
|
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p; &=
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p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; HANSARD &n=
bsp;  =
; &n=
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