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Speaker: I will now call the House t=
o order.
We will proceed at this time with prayers.
<= o:p>
Prayers
DAILY ROUTINE
Speaker:̳= 5; We will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.
Tributes.
Introduction of visitors.= p>
Returns or documents for tabling.<= /span>
TABLING RETURNS AND DOCUMENTS
Hon. Mr. Roub= le: I have the honour and pleasur= e of tabling the Department of Education Strategic Plan 2011-16: Our Commitme= nt to New Horizons in both French and English. I also have for tabling a document entitled Implementing the Education Reform Project Recommendati= ons: New Horizons and the Department of Education Strategic Plan 2011-16.
Hon. Mr. Keny=
on:
I have for tabling a House Joint Resolution No. 15 in the Legislature of the
State of
Speaker:̳= 5; Are there further documents for tabling?
Reports of committees.
Are there any petitions?
Are there any bills to be introduced?
Are there any notices of motion?
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr. Mitchell:= I give notice of the following motion for the production of papers:
THAT this House do issue an order for the return of all needs assessments, feasibility studies and operational, maintenance and staffing projections completed before political announcements were made that new hospitals would be built in Dawson City and Watson Lake.
Mr. Elias: I give notice of= the following motion for the production of papers:
THAT this House do issue an order for the return of al=
l cost
estimates and contracts,
including all changes and increases to the same, related to the proposed new
emergency medical services building/Whitehorse ambulance station.
Ms. Hanson: I give notice of the following moti=
on:
T=
HAT this
House urges the Minister of Health and Social Services to designate =
(=
1) medical, practical, emotional and spiritual support to=
Yukoners
facing death;
(=
2) respite
care and emotional support for families caring for dying relatives at home;=
(=
3) proximity to
(=
4) savings in health care.
Mr. Cardiff:=
span>&=
#8195; I give notice of the follow=
ing
motion:
THAT this House exercises its powers unde=
r section
15(1) of the Child and Youth Advocate Act and requests the child and
youth advocate to review and make a report to the Legislative Assembly on t=
he
implications of the federal government’s proposed Bill C-4, Youth
Criminal Justice Act amendments for Yukon children and youth; and
THAT the terms of reference of this revie=
w and
report include, but not be limited to, the potential impacts of Bill C-4 on=
:
(=
1)
(=
2)
T=
HAT the
child and youth advocate transmit a report to Members of the Legislative
Assembly by
Speaker: Are there further notices of
motion?
I=
s there a
statement by a minister?
H=
earing
none, that brings us to Question Period.
QUESTION PERIOD
Question re:
Energy pol=
icy
Mr. McRobb: Mr. Sp=
eaker,
one of the experts in town trying to help sort out this government’s
energy problems is university professor Dr. Mark Jacca=
rd.
The professor was critical of the Yukon Party’s current energy strate=
gy.
He said, “It’s not a plan that really moves you anywhere at this
point. It talks a lot about study and encouraging people and so on, and I h=
ave
seen plans like that for 25 years.”
M=
r.
Speaker, this is the same energy strategy published in January 2009. As the=
now
Independent Yukon Party member constantly reminds us, those were the good o=
ld
days when he was still the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. The
government says its energy strategy is great. The experts say it isn’=
t.
Whom should Yukoners believe? This government or respec=
ted
experts?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
Mr. Speaker, the energy strategy th=
at
this government has tabled is based on the principles of sustainability, en=
ergy
security, self-sufficiency, optimizing benefits, climate change coordinatio=
n,
leadership of the
I=
t creates
the objectives of conserving energy and using it more efficiently, increasi=
ng
the supply and use of renewable energy, and meeting current and future elec=
tricity
needs and managing responsibly our oil and gas development. That’s our
responsible approach to addressing this issue. I’m sorry if it
doesn’t excite or energize the Member for Kluane.
Mr. McRobb: This Yukon Party government=
says
its energy strategy is the best invention since sliced bread, but according=
to
a leading energy expert, it’s more like toast. In fact, the professor=
is
so unimpressed by this strategy that he has raised the prospects of civil
disobedience to force environmentally responsible energy policy to get the
attention of government. People are left scratching their heads trying to
reconcile this government’s rhetoric with its own actions. This gover=
nment
refused to extend the rate relief program because subsidies were contrary to
conservation. Then, after this House adjourned, it extended the subsidy
program. What exactly is this government’s conservation policy with
respect to electricity subsidies?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
Speaking of reconciling rhetoric, o=
ne
always has a challenge with knowing the current position of the Member for
Kluane, whether it’s reflective of the initiatives he was putting in
place when he was the Cabinet Commissioner on Energy as part of an NDP
government, or now part of his current position as part of the Liberal Offi=
cial
Opposition.
O=
ur
position on this has been very clear. We’ve been working with utiliti=
es
in
Mr. McRobb: I can agree with minister o=
n one
point: this government’s energy policy is indeed a charade. This gove=
rnment
can’t have it both ways. It can’t champion proper price signals=
to
promote energy conservation and champion bill subsidies. These two are polar
opposites. It has to be one or the other.
I=
t’s
no wonder Yukoners are confused about this government’s policy, and i=
t’s
no wonder the professor is cynical.
W=
hy
isn’t this government willing to debate its position on conservation =
and
subsidies? Why does it wait until the House is not in session to announce
subsidies that completely contradict its position as evidenced in Hansar=
d?
What is this government’s position? Does it favour true price signals=
to
promote energy conservation, or does it favour subsidies? Which is it?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
Wow, Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party
calling the principle-based energy strategy a charade. I guess they donR=
17;t
believe in conserving energy or using it more efficiently. I guess they
don’t believe in increasing the supply of renewable energy. I guess t=
hey
don’t believe in the other objectives that I’ve outlined here. =
The
government has taken action on many energy fronts, whether it’s worki=
ng
with the Energy Solutions Centre or working to build our energy infrastruct=
ure,
as we’ve seen with the investments in Mayo B and the Aishihik project=
.
T=
his
government has taken action. Instead, what do we hear from the opposition? =
Opposition to everything. Their contrary position has =
become
very tiresome. One only has to take a look at the budget to see what’s
going on. One only has to look at the activities of the Yukon Utilities Boa=
rd
and see the GRA progress to know where we’re at in
W=
e’re
going to work with Yukoners and mobilize them to take the necessary action =
to
ensure that we’re meeting our energy futures now and into the future.=
Question re: Water management strategy
Mr. Elias: =
I have some questions for t=
he
Environment minister.
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: That’s exactly what we’=
re
doing.
Mr. Elias: =
Knowledge of
W=
e need to
manage our water resources through a comprehensive territorial water strate=
gy.
Will the Environment minister launch the development of this important
strategy?
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: I believe I probably answered this
question three times over the sitting, but again, the department understands
that a water strategy is of importance. It’s a work-in-progress, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr. Elias: =
I haven’t seen any pu=
blic
consultation.
A
made-in-Yukon water strategy would advance a number of goals, including
ensuring that: (1) each and every Yukoner has access to safe drinking water=
as
a basic human right; (2) critical aquatic ecosystems are maintained and
protected; (3) our water supply is effectively managed to support sustainab=
le
economic development; (4) we conduct and share the research and planning
necessary to manage our water; and (5) our partners are empowered, informed=
and
fully engaged in water stewardship in our territory.
T=
hese are
important objectives and I’m inviting the minister to show some
leadership on the floor of the House today on how he’s going to manag=
e to
accomplish this. Will the minister coordinate the development of a
comprehensive territorial water strategy with our partners in federal, First
Nation and municipal governments?
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: The
S=
ome
internal program improvements and the enhancement of collaboration between
programs are currently underway. However, given the multi-governmental
responsibilities of water, input from other governments and stakeholders
is important to address the issues identified.
A=
t the
western premiers conference in June 2010, the pr=
emiers,
including our Yukon Premier Dennis Fentie, established a new strategy to
conserve and manage
Speaker’s statement
Speaker: Before the next question, I=
just
want to remind the honourable minister: don’t mention individuals by
name, please.
Question re: Airport acti=
vity
Ms. Hanson: Every spring, the skies above
T=
hey occur
more than 12 hours a day, seven days a week. They cause considerable noise =
and
pollution but, worst of all, they occur over residential neighbourhoods.
This is a serious safety concern. These pilots practis=
e
take-offs and landings, sharp turns, sudden descents and other tricky manoeuvres.
C=
an the
Minister of Highways and Public Works tell us why these test flights occur =
over
residential areas?
Hon. Mr. Lang: That airport has been there for abo=
ut 50
years. We encourage them, if they’re doing that, to go outside the
residential areas and, in most cases, they do.
Ms. Hanson: That may be the case, and it’=
s an encouragement,
but the reality is that particularly helicopter flights are doing their
training above the downtown area of
C=
an the
minister tell me why these test flights cannot occur further away from
residential areas?
Hon. Mr. Lang: That is maybe another thing the NDP=
could
shut down — the airport.
Ms. Hanson: I would expect something a bit more=
with
gravitas from the minister responsible for this area. This is an issue that=
has
been raised by members of my constituency in downtown. This is a
quality-of-life issue for many of my constituents in the downtown area of
Whitehorse Centre. They don’t see why they should have to put up with=
the
noise pollution and danger of having helicopters flying so low overhead. Wh=
en a
W=
ill the
minister commit to looking into other places where these helicopter pilots =
can practise their flying skills more safely and less
obtrusively?
Hon. Mr. Lang: I find interesting the Leader of the
Third Party and her comments in this House. That airport has been there for=
60
years. In fact, it has been there longer than she has been in the
I=
’m
saying to the member opposite: everybody in this community uses that airpor=
t.
B=
y the way,
four jets fly over my house every day — every day, Mr. Speaker. IR=
17;m
not going to shut that down. They’re for the service of all Yukoners.=
I
will work with the airport, but the airport is where it is, and there are
airplanes and there are helicopters. I’m not about to shut down the
international airport.
Question re: Wolverine mi= ne cave-in
Mr. Cardiff: =
Mr. Speaker, we learned yes=
terday
that a tragedy was narrowly averted at the Wolverine mine. On February 16,
there was another cave-in. Five hundred tonnes =
of
rock came crashing down in an area where workers had been working. Luckily =
no
workers were in the vicinity at the time of the cave-in.
I=
n August,
Energy, Mines and Resources approved Yukon Zinc’s mine development and
operation plan, version 2010-12, subject to some conditions. Yukoners want =
some
assurances that the mine is safe. I want to give the Energy, Mines and Reso=
urces
minister, who permits mines in the territory, an opportunity to speak to
Yukoners about this latest incident.
W=
hat steps
is his department taking to ensure this mine is safe?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: = This is a very serious issue that t= he company has taken to heart and, additionally, government agencies, such as Energy, Mines and Resources and also Yukon Workers’ Compensation Heal= th and Safety Board and their operational health and safety folks have also be= en very active in. It is very fortunate that there was no one hurt in this area where people were not working. It was an area that had not been yet re-supported, but an area where they were planning to do additional work. T= he Department of Energy, Mines and Resources is working closely with the compa= ny. Additionally, the company has worked with Occupational Health and Safety. Occupational Health and Safety has gone in and provided their confirmation = that work can continue in areas that have been identified within the mine site.<= o:p>
Mr. Cardiff: =
There have already been two=
deaths
at the Wolverine mine, and we don’t want to see any more. Last April,=
a
young man, Will Fisher, died when a tunnel collapsed. Yukoners want some
assurances that the mine is safe, so I have the same question for the minis=
ter
responsible for Yukon Workers’ Compensation Health and Safety Board
— I want to give that minister, who is responsible for health and saf=
ety
in Yukon workplaces, an opportunity to speak to Yukoners about this latest =
incident.
What steps is his department taking to ensure this mine is safe?
Hon. Mr. Hart: As we’ve stated previously in=
this
House, Occupational Health and Safety was immediately on-site, in conjuncti=
on
with the RCMP, to review the situation where the individual suffered his
mishap. They were there for the whole duration of that review. In fact, they
ensured that no one was working underground until such time as Occupational
Health and Safety was happy with the conditions there.
Mr. Cardiff: =
It’s unfortunate the =
minister
doesn’t even get it. I’m talking about what he’s doing and
what the department is doing to make it safe after the latest incident, not=
the
one that occurred last year. Last year a 25-year-old, on April 25, was kill=
ed
by a cave-in at Wolverine mine. Shortly afterward, as the minister just sta=
ted,
Yukon Workers’ Compensation Health and Safety Board went there with t=
he
RCMP. They did an investigation. They released an interim report on the
fatality, and they announced that a more thorough investigation would be
conducted.
A=
board
representative recently said in media reports that the investigation into t=
he
death last April had been completed and it is in the hands of the Yukon
Department of Justice. When did Justice receive the report from OH&S and
RCMP inspectors? What does the report say, and when will it be released to =
the
public?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
In this particular case, additional=
work
has been done by the engineering staff involved, by the geological staff
involved, by the people doing the shoring-up of these areas and additional
inspections going on by occupational health inspectors to ensure that it is
permitted appropriately and to ensure that the appropriate permits and
certificates are in place in order for work to proceed. The company has been
working very proactively with all the agencies involved, whether it is the
Government of Yukon or Yukon Workers’ Compensation Health and Safety
Board in order to ensure that their mine is being built to the highest
standards.
Question re: Motions for production of papers
Mr. Elias: =
Yesterday in
H=
ere in
this Legislature there are almost 60 information requests on our Order Paper
for information from this government and not one has been answered.
W=
hy has
this Yukon Party government, for years, refused to provide members of the
opposition and the public with the basic information on what they are up to=
?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
Well, I guess respect for t=
he forum
of democracy, our Legislative Assembly, has just been demonstrated.
F=
rankly,
all pertinent information for this Assembly, for the members opposite, for =
the
public, is made available through the appropriate processes, channels, and =
so
on. But if the Official Opposition, the Liberals, choos=
e to
use this in a manner that is not intended, that is their business.
B=
ut let me
remind the House and Yukoners of something: even in debate, in this
Legislature, when we only have to sit a maximum of 60 days in a calendar ye=
ar,
the Liberals have failed — failed in all these years to fully debate a
budget. I think the problem and respect for this House sits right over ther=
e on
the Liberal benches.
Mr. Elias: = First and foremost, I’= ;ll take no lessons from this Yukon Party Premier. Yukoners are craving openness and= accountability in this democracy. Our requests on the floor of this House for information = were done in the public’s best interests.
R=
equests
for budget information, health care studies, education reform, investment
policy, our territory’s financial position, energy studies, audits and
reports, public safety studies, environmental test results — every si=
ngle
one of these requests for information was ignored by this Yukon Party gover=
nment.
Why has this government not responded to these requests and chosen to keep =
this
information from the public?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
In the context of respect f=
or this
Assembly, the Member for Old Crow has just stated every single request has =
been
ignored. But the member also referenced the fact that the financial positio=
n of
the
Mr. Elias: =
We’ve made these requ=
ests on
behalf of the public we serve, and this government’s response is alwa=
ys
no. The Premier wants to know what I vote against?
I’ll tell him right now what I vote against. I vote against the secret
privatization of our energy future. I vote against copping out on climate
change. I vote against our terrible graduation rates. I vote against democr=
atic
deficits. I vote against $36.5 million of bad investments. I vote against t=
he
lack of compassion and accountability of this Yukon Party government.
Y= ou know what, Mr. Speaker? This Yukon Party did this before, and they will do it ag= ain. This Premier needs to get on his feet and give one good reason to Yukoners = why he has refused almost 60 information requests from the opposition members.<= o:p>
Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
I think the reason has just=
been presented
to the public by the Member for Old Crow. If that is the approach that the
Liberals take in constructive debate, I don’t think I need to expand =
on
that whatsoever.
M=
r.
Speaker, all those lists of votes, apparently, which the member has voted
against, have never been on the floor of this Ho=
use
for a vote. Good luck to the Liberals. We’re still waiting for their
plan. So far, what have we got? Opposition to building =
health
care facilities. A big issue with a leaky sewer pipe that turns out =
to
be a frozen waterline. A hiring office at an adult stor=
e.
Dealing with officials and public employees in a manner that is inconsistent
with the authority vested in us as elected members. I could go on all day, =
Mr.
Speaker. I think the Liberals are in a big predicament. They have no plan; =
they
have no vision; they have no focus; they have no purpose, and Yukoners
don’t know what they stand for. Good luck in the coming election.
Question re: Motions for =
production
of papers
Mr. Mitchell:
My colleague, the Member for =
Vuntut
Gwitchin just asked the Premier a question three times, a serious question,=
and
he got the usual deflection and diversion and no answer, so we’ll try
again.
L=
et me
repeat the point the Speaker of the House of Commons made in his ruling
yesterday. Parliament has an unconditional right to demand information from=
the
Cabinet. Over the last five years, this government has taken its lead from =
the
Harper government when it comes to providing information to the public. Mr.
Harper deals with the public on a need-to-know basis and we have the same
attitude here in the corner office.
T=
here are
59 requests on our Order Paper that this government has not responded to. W=
hy
has this government chosen to ignore every one of these requests for
documentation on behalf of Yukoners?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
It’s always interesting to he=
ar the
opposition complaining about not receiving information. They did get a copy=
of
the Department of Education’s annual report. Earlier today I presented
both the English and French translation of the Department of Education̵=
7;s
strategic plan. The other day I was told by the Liberals that we hadn’=
;t
done anything in order to respond to the concerns raised by the Auditor Gen=
eral
of
W=
hen one
takes a look at the report, on pages 8 through 11 of the preface, there are
responses to 11 of the recommendations.
N=
ow, the
opposition can bury their heads in the sand all they want, but just because
they have a lack of information about what is really going on, or a lack of
awareness, doesn’t mean that nothing is going on. They just have to p=
ull
their heads out of the sand, take a look at what is going on, read the repo=
rts
that are actually given to them, and then we can get on with constructive
debate.
Mr. Mitchell:
The Education minister has no=
w made
it 0 for 4. Talking about heads in the sand — ans=
wer
the question that is asked. Stop telling us that it is up to you to
decide what information will be provided. The public expected more from the
Harper government and from this government as well. They promised voters th=
ey
would be fully open and accountable. The Speaker of the House of Commons th=
rew
the book at the federal Conservatives yesterday because they continually ig=
nore
requests from the opposition for information. It would have been reasonable=
to
expect at least some progress to have been made in response to these more t=
han
50 MPPs in the past four years, yet this govern=
ment
has come up empty.
W=
hat good
reason does the government have for refusing to provide the information we =
have
been asking for?
Hon. Mr. Kenyon:
It is interesting to watch the Liberal leader in the
I=
think
perhaps if the member actually read the websites where most of this informa=
tion
is posted, if he read the documents we regularly table in the House, if he =
or
his colleagues attended — rather than staff — regular departmen=
tal
updates and briefings that are offered and took adequate notes, and
didn’t sit there and say they were possibly holding the truth back be=
cause
the member can read body language —
P=
erhaps
it’s about time the members are concerned about things that are place=
d on
the floor. When are the Liberals in this House going to debate the over 1,0=
00
motions that they have placed on the floor of this House? Are they asking
things that could seriously be debated in this House, in a democratic fashi=
on,
or are they just having a little bit of fun over there?
Mr. Mitchell:
Well that’s 0 for 5, Mr.
Speaker. Deflection, diversion, but no answers. =
We
know that the final answer of the day — because that’s when he
likes to pop up — will be the Premier’s. The Harper government
breached the privileges of Parliament by hiding information from Parliament=
and
Canadians. Government is not above the rules. The Speaker reinforced the su=
premacy
of Parliament in having a right to demand all information necessary for its
role, so I would urge the Premier, take a look at the Speaker’s rulin=
g.
In fact, I would urge all the members across the way to take a look at it.
Several of the requests we have made relate to issues that are each their
responsibilities.
I=
nstead of
putting up a brick wall, will the Premier start answering some of the 59
outstanding requests for information we’ve made on behalf of Yukoners=
?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
Let me remind the Liberal l=
eader
that this institution, this Assembly, also has a Speaker, and if the Libera=
ls
take issue with the government side and its presentation of information
requested, take it through due process before this Assembly’s Speaker.
The problem here is the Liberals are scrambling to at least find some sembl=
ance
of a position they can present to the M=
r.
Speaker, the requests for information that are of substance, that are factu=
al, are always responded to. When it comes to accountabili=
ty,
the opposition — especially the Liberals — are to be held to
account for not debating the public’s business. They have never, ever
finished fully debating the public’s business and, in short, the most
important part of the public’s business, the budget. They just vote
against it; they know not what they do. Good luck in the coming election. <=
o:p> Speaker: The time for Question Perio=
d has
now elapsed. We’ll proceed to Orders of the Day. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT MOTIONS Motion No. 1310 Deputy
Clerk: &=
nbsp; Motion No. 1310, standing in=
the
name of the Hon. Mr. Fentie. Speaker: It is moved by the Hon. Pre=
mier THAT pursuant to section 18 of the Conflict
of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, the Legislative Assembly reapp=
oint David Phillip Jones, Q.C., =
as a
member of the Conflict of Interest Commission for a three-year period. <=
o:p> Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
As I’m sure all honou=
rable members
are aware, the Conflict of Interest Commissioner is an officer of this House
and plays a key role with respect to the Conflict
of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act. He assists members of this
Assembly and members of Cabinet to understand their obligations under our
conflict of interest legislation. He assists members and ministers in
identifying areas of possible conflict and providing them with the advice on
preventing conflicts from occurring. He may investigate any complaints that=
may
be made by members under the Confli=
ct of
Interest (Members and Ministers) Act. The Conflict of Interest Commissi=
oner
also plays a role with respect to employees of our various caucuses and Cab=
inet
offices as well as deputy ministers. The motion before us today is to reapp=
oint
the current Conflict of Interest Commissioner, David Phillip Jones, Q.C. fo=
r a
fourth three-year term. M=
r. Jones was
first appointed by this House in 2002, succeeding M=
r. Jones
certainly brings a wealth of experience and training to his position. He ha=
s a
legal practice in M=
r. Jones
studied economics and political science at <=
o:p> Mr. Mitchell:
I will be brief, because the
Premier has outlined the curricula vitae for the Hon. David Jones, Q.C., an=
d we
rise to support his motion. M=
r. Jones
does bring great expertise and experience to the position. He has served =
span> <=
o:p> Ms. Hanson: The members of the New Democratic P=
arty
caucus support the reappointment of Mr. Jones for a further three-year term.
His advice to members and ministers over the years about whether a particul=
ar
matter would or would not constitute a real or apparent conflict of interest
and what steps need to be taken to avoid such a conflict have, I’m su=
re,
been invaluable. M=
r. Jones
said in his last report the concepts about what constitute a conflict of
interest do evolve over time and that we need to ensure our Conflict of
Interest (Members and Ministers) Act, which was originally enacted in 1=
995
and amended in 1999, keeps pace with the times. W=
e look
forward to working with Mr. Jones. <=
o:p> Mr. Cathers:
Mr. Jones, as other members h=
ave
noted, has served this Assembly and the territory for almost nine years in =
the
role and has continued to do a capable job. I’ll be supporting his
reappointment. <=
o:p> Speaker: If the honourable member sp=
eaks, he
will close debate. Does any other member wish to be heard? <=
o:p> Hon.
Mr. Fentie: I want to thank the members opposite for their input. M=
r. Jones
has certainly served this Assembly and this territory well. I think it is o=
nly
fitting that he be reappointed again for the next three-year term. Thank yo=
u. <=
o:p> Speaker: Before putting the question=
, the
Chair must draw the members’ attention to section 18(4) of the Con=
flict
of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act. That section requires that a
motion to appoint a Conflict of Interest Commissioner must be supported by =
at
least two-thirds of the members of the Legislative Assembly present for the
vote. In order to ensure the requirements of section 18 of the Conflict =
of
Interest (Members and Ministers) Act are met, the Chair will call now f=
or a
recorded division. <=
o:p> Speaker: Madam Deputy Clerk, please =
poll the
House. Hon. Mr. Fentie: =
Agree. Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
Agree. Hon. Mr. Hart: Hon. Mr. Kenyon:
Agree. Hon. Mr. Rouble: =
Agree. Hon. Mr. Lang: Hon. Ms. Horne: <=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Agree. Hon. Mr. Edzerza: Agree. Mr. Nordick: Agree. Mr. Mitchell:
Agree. Mr. McRobb: Agree. Mr. Elias: =
Agree. Mr. Fairclough: <=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Agree. Mr. Inverarity: Agree. Ms. Hanson: Agree. Mr. Cardiff: =
Agree. Mr. Cathers:
Agree. Madam Clerk: Mr. Speaker, the results ar=
e 17 yeas,
nil nay. Speaker: The yeas have it. I declare=
the
motion carried by the required support of two-thirds of the members of the
Legislative Assembly present for the vote and that David Phillip Jones, Q.C=
., has
been now reappointed as Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Motion
No. 1310 agreed to <=
o:p> Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
I move that the Speaker do now leav=
e the
Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole. Speaker: It has been moved by the Go=
vernment
House Leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House res=
olve
into Committee of the Whole. Motion
agreed to Speaker
leaves the Chair COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE=
Chair (Mr. No=
rdick):
Order please. Committee of the Whole will now come to order. The matter bef=
ore
the Committee is Bill No. 24, First
Appropriation Act, 2011-12.
We’ll now proceed with general debate on Health and Social Services. =
Do
members wish a brief recess? All Hon. Memb=
ers:
Agreed. Chair: =
Committee of the Whole will recess for 15 minutes. <=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Recess Chair: Order please. Bill No. 24: First Appropriat=
ion Act,
2011-12 — continued Chair: The matter before the Commi=
ttee is
Bill No. 24, First Appropriation Act, 2011-12. We will now proceed w=
ith
general debate in Vote 15, Department of Health and Social Services. <=
o:p> Department
of Health and Social Services Hon. Mr.
Hart: =
b>I apologize, but I’m g=
oing to
sit. I’m pleased to have the opportunity today to speak to Committee =
of
the Whole on the Health and Social Services operation and maintenance
expenditure budget for the year 2011-12 in the amount of $262,611,000. I wo=
uld
like to draw your attention to some of the highlights of the programs, serv=
ices
and major initiatives that we will be focusing on over the coming year. T=
he
department is actively planning to move forward on the recommendations of t=
he report
of the Auditor General. We have accepted all of those recommendations. We w=
ill
be outlining our implementation plans as well as steps already taken during=
our
discussions with Public Accounts after the completion of this sitting of the
legislative session. H=
owever, I
would like to say a few general words about the report and what it means for
the budget perspective. What the Auditor General said in her report, in ess=
ence,
is that we have to have more careful business cases to support the expendit=
ure
of public funds. These business cases must be rigorous; they must have
benchmarks, performance measures and a careful risk analysis. W=
e in my
department are faced with a wide array of ongoing demands and an infinite s=
et of
fresh demands, but with a finite amount of resources to meet those demands.=
We
are doing better than most jurisdictions in maintaining the relative share =
of
expenditures as a percentage of the GDP; nonetheless, Health and Social
Services consumes more than one-quarter of the budget. New endeavours
must be funded from efficiencies within the system or new targeted funds fr=
om T=
he Task
Force on Acutely Intoxicated Persons at Risk delivered its final report on =
W=
ork on the
wellness initiative commenced in January 2011. The wellness framework will =
set
out a broad action of achieving wellness among different groups in the W=
ork on the
social inclusion and poverty reduction strategy is proceeding as planned. We
are confident that the strategy will be completed by the summer and will
provide us with a framework on how the government can move forward in addre=
ssing
the pressing social challenges that impact the most vulnerable citizens of =
our
society. The Whitehorse Housing Ade=
quacy
Study, done as part of the social inclusion work, as well as the recent=
ly
released A Home for Everyone: A Housing Actio=
n Plan
for Whitehorse, developed by the housing task force of the
Anti-Poverty Coalition, are helping us to identify priorities and develop
programs and services to assist those wanting to make better lives for
themselves. T=
his
government expects to be announcing significant progress shortly in all the=
se
areas. A=
ddressing
various social housing issues and challenges is a priority of this governme=
nt.
Health and Social Services is working closely with Yukon Housing Corporatio=
n on
a number of initiatives brought forward by various community groups and
interests. Over the coming year, we will continue our work with NGOs and
stakeholders. O=
ur
government is continuing to follow through on its commitment to provide
services and supports to children with disabilities and their families thro=
ugh
its collaboration with Autism W=
e are also
continuing to engage and work with First Nations on implementation of the <=
i>Child
and Family Services Act. This government has also made a tangible
commitment to work with the Government of Saskatchewan as they explore clin=
ical
trials for MS sufferers based on the still controversial liberation therapy
developed by Dr. Zamboni in O=
nce the
peer review has been completed, submissions for funding will be considered =
by
the I=
nsured
Health Services has introduced an innovative initiative by establishing the
Weight Wise program in I=
nsured
Health Services has successfully recruited pediatrician services in =
I=
would now
like to draw your attention to specific budget highlights. Over the coming
year, total O&M expenditures will increase by 14 percent, which =
will
include a 14-percent increase in the transfer payments and will be accompan=
ied
by a revenue increase of 33 percent. A=
ll major
program areas will see increases. The department is working with Yukon Hosp=
ital
Corporation and the Canada Health Infoway to mo=
ve
forward with plans for additional electronic health information systems in =
W=
ith
respect to the $3.614 million capital budget, $3.196 million has been alloc=
ated
between a number of Canada Health Infoway-funded
projects. $2.836 million will be allocated for the development of an integr=
ated
health record system, including phase 1, and subject to the approval of the=
business
case for phase 2. $360,000 has been allocated to complete Panorama, which i=
s a
system that will enhance our ability at both national and local levels to
manage communicable disease outbreaks, immunization, vaccine inventory, fam=
ily
health, health alerts and workloads. T=
his budget
provides an eight-percent increase for an additional $3.581 million to the
Yukon Hospital Corporation for the 2011-12 budget of
$46.405 million. This is primarily made up of a total of $3.117 million in
operation funding and $2.18 million for the T=
here has
been a decrease of $977,000 to address the Yukon Hospital Corporation
employees’ pension plan deficit, originally entered into in December
2006, which concludes with the final payment on T=
his budget
also contains funding for the cancer care navigator program, which continue=
s in
partnership with the Yukon Hospital Corporation, and which assists <=
st1:State> T=
his budget
also includes $80,000 for the community clinical dietitian. The role of the
community dietitian generally is to develop population-based programs and
services, including information campaigns. Again, I wish to point out that =
this
is another initiative funded through federal dollars. T=
he
department values the work and contribution of many NGOs that provide servi=
ce
on our behalf. Responding to the individual needs of each NGO is a challenge
each year, given that we must all work with limited resources in the
ever-increasing demands. T=
his
year’s budget provides for $111 million in transfer payments to commu=
nity
partners, such as parents of children with disabilities, the Yukon Medical
Association, Yukon Hospital Insurance Service, childcare operating funds and
NGOs. T=
he NGO
funding will support the work of organizations, such as Help and Hope for
Families Society, FASSY, Many Rivers Counselling and Support Services, Yuko=
n Women’s
Transition Home Society, Salvation Army and the Dawson Shelter Society. W=
hile the
social inclusion strategy will establish the groundwork for future investme=
nts,
this budget provides $14.14 million for social assistance and supports the =
most
vulnerable citizens of our communities. This is an increase of $2.8 million,
which takes into consideration the following factor: T=
his budget
contains a total of $3.4 million for the territorial health access fund,
highlighted by some of the following initiatives: $406,000 for the palliati=
ve
care model; $168,000 for healthy living and healthy eating; $207,000 for the
wellness and aging strategy; $140,000 for the Yukon health line; $1.082 mil=
lion
for the chronic conditions support program; $435,000 for mentorship; and
finally, $120,000 for the telehealth program. In
addition, $1.6 million has been allocated for the medical travel fund which
supports T=
he medical
travel review currently underway does not include a review of the medevac
program. The decision to send a patient out of the territory for urgent med=
ical
needs has been, and always will be, a medical decision. The consultants wil=
l be
looking at administrative processes and providing advice on such things as
better tracking, reporting on medical travel activities, reason for medical
travel and stats on the types of services the patients are receiving Outside. T=
his
information will better inform health managers and groups such as the
specialists committee and the decisions they make regarding the medical tra=
vel
program. T=
his budget
sees an increase to physician and hospital claims that are reflective of a
changing demographic and population increases. A $5.1-million increase has =
been
forecast to address the growth in physician claims, as there is continued
growth in patient visits, the number of physicians and the complexity of
patient cases. A $4.9-million increase for hospital claims is also being an=
ticipated.
Both the number and cost of claims is increasing as population and health c=
are
needs of the T=
hese
increases are necessary to meet the health care needs of a growing <=
st1:State> A=
t this
time I would like to take the opportunity to provide clarification to a
statement I made in Committee of the Whole on T=
he above
information now correctly explains the line item for health services in the
supplementary budget for 2010-11, for the members opposite. Returning to this year’s budget: we have included in this budg=
et
for continuing care an increase in personnel of $1.75 million, and a $957,0=
00
increase in other O&M for the opening of the 19 additional beds at the
Thomson Centre. A=
dditional
O&M includes service contracts such as dietary, laundry, pharmacy, nurs=
ing
and general supplies, equipment rental, communications, training, and
non-consumable assets. The estimated timeline for the first residential
admission to the Thomson Centre is slated for May 2011. With respect to the
capital budget, I’ve already drawn your attention to the Canada Healt=
h Infoway projects. I=
n addition
to this, a total of $151,000 in capital is allocated for repairs to facilit=
ies,
including the young offenders facility, Youth
Achievement Centre, group homes and the My
government values any opportunity to work collaboratively with First Nation=
s.
$110,000 in funds has been allocated in this capital budget to complete the
installation of video conferencing in First Nation offices under the northe=
rn
strategy telehealth expansion project. T=
hat
concludes the highlights for 2011-12 budget for =
the
Department of Health and Social Services. I look forward to the opportunity=
to
respond to questions from the members opposite. Mr. Mitchell:
First of all, I’d like =
to
thank the minister for the overview as presented and I’d like to thank
the department officials for the briefing that was provided back in Februar=
y.
It was much appreciated. We did receive a fair level of detail in the brief=
ing
and that is very beneficial to our understanding of the spending that’=
;s
in the estimates. I’d like to thank all the officials — there w=
ere
quite a number there, and one who is usually there but couldn’t be. I=
’d
also like to thank the health care workers across I=
’d
like to start with just some general questions revolving around the estimat=
es.
I appreciate the minister has indicated that, mains to mains, there’s=
a
14-percent increase from 2010-11 to 2011-12. I=
’m
going to mainly concentrate on O&M today because the capital budget is
relatively small and the O&M budget is the biggest O&M budget across
government. Of course, this department represents virtually 25 percent of t=
he
total budget we have in front of us. The O&M estimates are $262.6 milli=
on,
and that, at first glance, does appear to be a healthy increase from the
2010-11 main estimates of $230.8 million. We also know that after two suppl=
ementary
budgets in 2010-11, we have now spent, or are forecast to have spent, over
$257.7 million in the fiscal year that is about to end. T=
hat means
the main estimates are in expectation that we will spend only $4.9 million =
more
this coming year than we have spent in all of last year with those
supplementary budgets included. Meanwhile, as the minister has pointed out,
wages have increased, with a new YEU contract. T=
he other
costs have increased; prescription drugs have increased; the number of visi=
ting
specialist visits are projected to increase, supplies, physician fees, et
cetera, and Yukon’s population has grown, as the minister indicated
— I think by over 600 people, primarily in Whitehorse, although also =
in
some other communities. In fact, $4 million of the increase in main estimat=
es
to main estimates in the Health budget alone is simply due to the collective
agreement, so it’s not money that’s to provide increased or new
services, but rather is the result of the fact that our hardworking employe=
es
have successfully negotiated a new agreement and those costs have to be
included. M=
y first
question for the minister, because we’ve seen how large the supplemen=
tary
budgets for health care have been in two budgets, in 2010-11: how confident=
is
the minister that he can get the job done for this amount of money? Hon. Mr. Hart: Mr. Mitchell:
Just to follow up on that, ca=
n we
expect to again see sizable health budget increases in supplementary budget=
s in
this coming year? That has been a pattern in the past and it certain=
ly
was last year. O=
r is the
minister saying no — that, obviously, there will always be some
unforeseen circumstances, but he doesn’t think we will have large or
significant supplementary amounts that will need to be voted? I=
f we are
going to see significant supplementary budgets in 2011-12, where is the mon=
ey
going to come from? Hon. Mr. Hart: Mr. Mitchell:
The minister referred to the
Auditor General’s recent report, entitled Yukon Health Services and
Programs — 2011, Department of Health and Social Services, and the
minister indicated in his opening remarks that the government is following =
up
on all the recommendations and intends to implement action to do so. O=
ne of the
concerns that was expressed by the Auditor General in paragraphs 86 and 87 =
was
that the department “…overspent its budget by $1.4 million in t=
he
2008-09 fiscal year and by $3.7 million in the 2=
009-10
fiscal year. As a result, the department is not in compliance with the F=
inancial
Administration Act.” The Auditor General went on to say,
“According to the department the overspent amount in both years was d=
ue
to costs from other jurisdictions that the department did not budget for. W=
hile
the inter-jurisdictional guidance for hospital and medical care insurance
states that provinces and territories have up to 12 months to invoice for
services after a patient has been released, an estimate of these costs shou=
ld
be made before the year-end so the department can request supplementary est=
imates
for any additional costs.” M=
y question
for the minister: what sort of changes in practice or procedures is the
Department of Health and Social Services putting in place so that they can
better estimate these costs during the year? D=
oes the
minister believe that the increases, main estimates to main estimates, are
sufficient to cover these amounts, since those amounts increased so much in=
the
supplementary budget? If not, since it’s obviously impossible to know
these costs until late in the year or the year following, will this inevita=
bly,
yet again, lead to supplementary budgets to cover these costs of some signi=
ficance?
I’m not asking the minister if there is going to be any money at all
that’s required, because estimation is just that — it’s estimation. It’s not a precise scienc=
e. It
appeared to me from what the Auditor General was saying in conversations I =
had
with her that perhaps the government was being overly optimistic in past ye=
ars
on just where these numbers would play out. Hon. Mr. Hart: Agree. Agree.Sarah We also are looking at one-time exp=
enditures
in the supplementary in allowances for pension, as well as — both the
hospital and the physician claims had money already set aside for them in t=
he
recovery — in the supplementary. We don’t expect any large iss=
ues
with regard to a supplementary in the future. However, I will state that we
anticipate the differential for the physician claims and hospital claims
— the amount difference is about $5 million for the whole department.=
I’ll try to respond as best I=
can
to the member opposite’s question. We are talking with
W=
hat we
have been doing, though, is working very closely with B.C. and
A=
s I
stated, too, previously, it’s really impossible to know for any great
certainty what items are going to fall and just exactly what they’re
going to be. For example, we had two patients in the month of December who =
cost
approximately $2 million. We were totally unaware of what these were —
and these were for babies. They go out and we take care of the situation. T=
he
client goes out, but we don’t know, for example, whether they’r=
e in
intensive care or acute care of whether they’re in there for two days=
or
five days.
I=
will say, main estimates to main estimates, there’s an i=
ncrease
of almost $10 million to account for volume increases. Late billings after =
the
year-end are not always to predict, as I said. A lot of billings come well
after the year-end. In addition, we’ve seen mental health cost increa=
se
due to the capacity issues of our neighbours in providing that service to t=
he
I=
will say,
though, that our agreement does allow many Yukoners to get into the queue in
both
A=
gain, we
are looking at trying to get a better handle on this thing. We are hoping to
work with Statistics Canada — in fact, we are getting some sort of
computer modelling system in place to help us with the monitoring. Regardle=
ss,
even when we do get some of the IT information in place, there are still go=
ing
to be issues where we have patients, and we are going to be totally unaware=
of
just what their actual costs will be.
R=
egardless,
we have to provide health care. In 2008, the member opposite indicated that=
we
were overbudget, but we also had to provide hea=
lth
care services under another act.
I=
’m
not going to tell a patient, “No, you can’t come into the hospi=
tal
because we are overbudget. You’ll have to=
wait
for another three months.” I don’t think that would be very acc=
eptable,
and I don’t think that is something that any government, quite frankl=
y,
is going to do. I think our supplementary budgets come in. We are aware. We
keep Finance fully informed on where we are at, when we can. As I stated to
both the members opposite, as well as to the Auditor General, these bills c=
ome
in. We don’t know what they are until they actually get here. I just =
gave
the members opposite a quick example of what just two clients can cost us. =
It
is a very substantial process, and it’s a very expensive issue when it
comes to health care in the
Mr. Mitchell:
I do thank the minister for t=
he
response and all the information. Just to make sure we’re on the same
page here, we’re certainly not suggesting to the minister that we sho=
uld
leave Yukoners untreated or deny travel because the amount hasn’t been
budgeted for — not at all. We’re just trying to get to the issue
of: is the budget in front of us sufficient, adequate and realistic to do t=
he
job? For example, if I look on page 12-31, with some of the stats on medical
treatment outside of Yukon, I see that in 2009-10 actuals, we had 1,983 cli=
ents
— or separate travel that we were billed for, for going outside Yukon.
But in 2010-11, we estimated 1,875. So we had 1,983 actual trips in 2009-10,
but the government came in and estimated that there would be fewer in 2010-=
11
— 1,875. However, it’s now forecast that, in fact, it’s 2=
,000
trips in 2010-11. The population of
W=
e have
actual operating mines and we’ve seen that those can be dangerous pla=
ces
to work, but we’re estimating the exact same number of clients for
2011-12, for 2010-11. The same number we actually now have as the forecast =
of
what the trips out were is what we’re usin=
g for
our estimates for the new budget. That’s why we look at it and questi=
on
if this is a realistic estimate or an optimistic estimate.
I=
f the
natural growth of industry and the population growth are going to lead to an
inevitably larger number of people who require treatment, and a percentage =
of
those will require treatment outside of
F=
or
example, Mr. Chair, we have on page 12-20 of the mains, under Total Social
Services, a 2010-11 forecast of $30.47 million and an
estimate for 2011-12 of $30.42 million. Now I recognize that it̵=
7;s
an increase from the mains, but in fact, if we have more people living here=
, if
housing costs have gone up — the average house in Yukon, according to=
the
report that was just released from the Department of Statistics, was I thin=
k $404,000
for the average price of a house sale in Whitehorse in the fourth quarter of
last year. Similarly, we know that rents have gone up. Even if we only have=
the
same number of social service recipients, there’s going to be a great=
er
cost per recipient to meet those needs. Another example: is it realistic to
expect to hold the total health service expenditures in 2011-12 to $100.21
million when 2010-11 is forecast already to exceed $100 million? That’=
;s
what I’m getting at.
A=
re these
numbers sufficiently large to cover the true, expected costs? I do apprecia=
te
that the minister said that they are asking the Statistics branch to develo=
p a
computer modelling system. I think that is a very worthwhile idea. I
don’t want to minimize the importance of health care by using a simil=
e,
but for example, when we go to the cafeteria for lunch, they make a certain
number of sandwiches and a certain volume for bowls of soup. They don’=
;t
actually know how many people are going to show up on a given day, but ther=
e is
an expectation, based on past experience that they will have so many custom=
ers.
S=
imilarly,
I appreciate that when the minister says that two patients alone cost the
system $2 million that may indeed be exceptional and extraordinary, but acr=
oss
36,000 Yukoners, we must be able to realistically project the volume of med=
ical
travel based on past experience. That is what I am getting at. Short of hav=
ing
the new modelling system in place, what I’m asking is: has the depart=
ment
now, as a result of the Auditor General’s report, and the fact that we
had to increase Health spending significantly in two supplementary budgets =
in
2010-11 — it was the lion’s share of those budgets — has =
the
department gone back and sharpened their pencil and tried to account for th=
ese
patterns?
Hon. Mr. Hart: I will try to respond to the member
opposite’s question. With regard to what the member opposite was
discussing previously in his response to me, looking at the past is not alw=
ays
a directive for the department. That’s why we are looking at this com=
puter
modelling that will take into consideration many issues and assist us in
determining our forecast issues for the department with regard to medical
travel.
W=
e are
looking at all kinds of issues as they relate to what the member opposite
indicated, the population increase, as well. What we’re going to be
taking into consideration also is, with the completion of the new resident
facility here in
N=
ow, it may
not be 100 percent of the care provided, but in essence, it will provide th=
at
process. That is, we anticipate that, in conjunction with Whitehorse Hospit=
al
Corporation, we will increase our specialists coming to the
W=
e’re
looking at the modelling forecast. It will help us with dealing with and ta=
king
into consideration, not just the past but the issues of working with the
Whitehorse General Hospital, our visiting physicians and specialists and al=
so
looking at the better practices that are being provided here by the local
doctors. The doctors are doing much more interactive preventive work with
patients here in
W=
e look
forward to that program, which again is just an example of some of the items
and programs being provided right here in the
W=
e’re
also looking at the medical review to help us deliver more efficient servic=
es.
On that particular issue, that’s exactly what we’re looking at
doing. We’re not looking at touching the medevac aspect of the progra=
m.
As I also stated in the opening, we’re looking at either maintaining =
or
increasing all the funding to our programs throughout Health and Social Ser=
vices.
C=
urrently,
our programs are well-utilized and we have minimal or no waiting list on so=
me
of our alcohol and drug programs. We’re working closely with the
physicians on those matters to ensure that we can provide good services to =
Yukoners.
A=
lso, with
regard to Health and Social Services, social assistance claims are starting=
to
decline, and we are expecting them to stabilize with the growing economic
climate that is coming into the
In
addition, there are many new treatments, many new medicines and developments
that are happening. New issues are being brought up every year. In fact, I =
just
saw recently that isotopes can now be produced in
I=
t does
have to go through a little bit more testing. But I’m very encouraged=
by
that particular mode. I think that again demonstrates there will be some
remuneration benefit to Yukoners, as well as other Canadians, when it comes=
to
receiving care with the new developments and the increase of IT, as well as=
new
ways of developing. It’s also one of the reasons why we’re work=
ing
with the Government of Saskatchewan on the MS model, when and if it is acce=
pted
by the end of April. We know that, for example, in the Yukon=
st1:State> we have several MS patients=
who are
looking to this program as a way and means of assisting them with their
program. I must say that it’s important to reiterate that it has to be
tested. It has to be clinically approved by the scientific field and morally
accepted by the doctors before any tests will be undertaken here in =
I=
look
forward to working with the jurisdiction of Saskatchewan
Mr. Mitchell:
I do thank the minister for t=
he
response. I want to assure the minister that we’re not trying to be
difficult with this. It’s just that our job is to test the budget and=
challenge
the numbers, ask questions and satisfy ourselves as to whether we’re =
confident
in the numbers that are in front of us. Although I think the Premier and
another minister today made references to attending briefings, I’m pr=
etty
certain I’ve attended most every briefing I’ve been responsible
for. I do find them very interesting and it’s important.
I=
t’s
our job to ask these questions, just as it’s the minister’s job=
to
bring forward the budget and that’s all that is meant by the questions
that are being asked. I know that it is not the best day for the minister to
debate this budget. I do appreciate that.
I=
’m
going to divert for a moment because the minister went into something that I
would have asked perhaps later, but to stay on the topic the minister raise=
d,
which is of the experimental therapy — I think it’s called the =
“liberation
therapy” for multiple sclerosis.
I=
know,
having spoken to the medical community about this, because I’ve had
friends who have suffered from this disease, I’ve had family members =
who
have suffered and passed on from this disease, so it is something that I ha=
ve a
great deal of empathy for and optimism toward an eventual cure, that this is
still experimental and risky. Without wanting to discourage any Yukoners who
are holding out hope for this treatment, I know that there are some in the
medical community who are skeptical about it or concerned about associated
risks.
T=
he
minister made reference to taking part in some of the trials that are due t=
o be
run by the Government of Saskatchewan. The minister had previously announced
that that would be happening, or perhaps it was a response to a question in
this House last fall. Could the minister just elaborate a little, because t=
he
minister in his last response made reference to the fact that, once the rev=
iew
has satisfied itself that they can go ahead with clinical trials in
Saskatchewan, then we would be making funding available for a certain numbe=
r of
Yukoners to participate. Has that number been set as to what it would be? D=
oes
the minister have more he can tell us about the review process that is goin=
g on
in
Hon. Mr. Hart: I’m going to respond to this
question and then I am going to ask for a brief five minutes. The Governmen=
t of
Saskatchewan has put out a call for proposals for clinical tests that will
close at the end of April, as I stated previously.
T=
hese
proposals have to be approved by the Government of Saskatchewan and by the
scientists and I would guess, in talking to the Minister of Health from
Saskatchewan, at minimum by a medical association from at least the Univers=
ity
of Regina and other experts in the field who are working with them. I
understand there are possibly other people who are working with them on this
issue.
R=
egardless
of the situation, all that research has to be gone through and approved by =
the
doctors and scientists to ensure the safety of not only the experimental
process but the clients, and to ensure that the work and testing being done=
is
scientifically done and can be scientifically proven. That is really the ke=
y issue.
There is also the morality of the issue for this particular aspect.
W=
hen it
comes to the situation of the inclusion of Yukoners, once we know, once we =
have
seen if the Government of Saskatchewan has accepted it, discussions will ta=
ke
place with our officials on how we may participate in their process.
I
don’t know what that’s going to be. I’m not a doctor.
I’m not a scientist. I don’t pretend to be. But I’m also
fully aware that many MS patients here in the
I=
n fact,
that’s one of the reasons that the provinces — all the province=
s,
including Saskatchewan — indicated they would not participate in any
clinical studies until the research was completed by those individuals and =
met
the scientific and medical strategies provided by that jurisdiction. That w=
as
the clarification for the
T=
he
S=
o as I
mentioned regarding MS, no, I have no specific numbers on how many MS patie=
nts
there will be in the
R=
ight now,
this item has to go through a peer review. The funding proposal will go. The
Government of Saskatchewan has already indicated that substantially more mo=
ney
will be laid out for this particular purpose. They have an inordinate numbe=
r of
MS patients. But, to be fair, given the size of the
Chair: Do members wish a brief rec=
ess?
All Hon. Members: Agree.
Chair: Committee of the Whole will=
recess
for five minutes.
<= o:p>
Recess
Chair: Order please. Committee of =
the
Whole will now come to order. The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 2=
4, First
Appropriation Act, 2011-12. We will now continue with general debate in
Vote 15, Department of Health and Social Services.
Mr. Mitchell:
I do thank the minister for t=
hat
update. Just for the record, while I expressed concern and the fact that we
have to be cautious in pursuing the liberation therapy, I certainly donR=
17;t
want to discourage
I=
’m
going to move to another issue. Yesterday, in motion debate on Motion No. 1=
340,
the government supported my amendment to the motion that included the wordi=
ng
“without the imposition of health care fees”, and in addition, =
the
motion was also amended by another member to say “or premiums”.
That motion, however, did not come to a final vote and so it’s not re=
ally
binding on this House. I’m not sure that motions are ever really bind=
ing
on this House; they urge the House.
I=
just want
to ask the minister today, for the record, to guarantee to Yukoners that the
Yukon Party government will not impose any new user fees or premiums on
Yukoners for accessing health care.
Hon. Mr. Hart: For the member opposite, I think we=
are
on record, both the Premier and I, that no premi=
ums
will be charged for health care in
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, that brings us to the
conundrum in which we find ourselves, I guess. That is the ever-increasing
costs of providing health care to Yukoners. I think in 1987 health care
spending was some 9.7 percent of the
T=
hen we
also met at least once as an all-party oversight committee — I think =
it
was called — with the minister and the Premier and the representative=
of
the NDP — I think it was the Member for Mount Lorne — and mysel=
f.
Actually, I’m not sure if it was the Member for
W=
e know
that the 2008 health care review identified a multi-million dollar gap going
forward in the funding that we receive from
I=
would ask
where the government is at with discussions with
Hon. Mr. Hart: The member opposite asked a very
important question with regard to dealing with the sustainability of the he=
alth
care system. In many ways, he has also answered his own question with regar=
d to
dealing with the federal government. Maintaining our funding levels with =
span>
N=
egotiations
are currently underway with all the jurisdictions because we understand we =
have
to look at getting this work done as soon as possible to ensure that the he=
alth
care for Yukoners and for all Canadians is looked at now and into the futur=
e.
T=
he member
opposite refers to the study for health care in the
T=
hat leaves
us with the dilemma of dealing with the ever-increasing cost of health care=
. As
the member indicated, drug costs are quite high. We also know that our whole
population is aging at a great rate, and that is something that’s the=
re.
It also brings up a couple of big and important issues, some of which I
recently discussed with my fellow colleagues in the western provinces and t=
he
territories, and that is the fact that obesity is on the rise in
W=
e have
obesity on the rise throughout our populace. We believe, like in the discus=
sion
on FASD, prevention is a very important aspect in trying to keep obesity and
diseases like FASD down. It’s important that people understand how th=
is
arrives. It is important that they take the steps necessary to alleviate the
pressure on the system as well as the pressure on themselves.
I=
was
taking part in a conference in
I=
was also
listening to a couple of other speakers as they relate to this program, whe=
re
we are as far as the research goes. I’m proud to say the and 14 other countries. FAS=
D is now
something that is being seen, not only just in
I=
think
that focusing on prevention is also an important aspect — not just for
stopping smoking. You know, I believe that we spent a substantial amount of
money on smoking prevention advertising over many, many, many years. But it
took a long time before it actually sank in. I can remember getting on a pl=
ane
when smoking was still allowed. Maybe I’m old, but I can still rememb=
er
getting on Air
I=
must
remind members opposite that it took a long time for the general public to =
buy
in. It took a long time for them to buy into the fact that it causes cancer=
. It
took a long time for them to buy into the fact that it affects their health=
. I
will say that a lot of it has come about because many of the baby boomers w=
ho
smoked have seen the effects of it directly. That’s probably what is =
sending
many of them over.
H=
owever, we
still have many young girls who take up smoking. In fact, in the
W=
e can look
at prevention when it comes to teen pregnancy. I remember as a young man,
trying to go to the drugstore to get one of those magic little pieces of pa=
per
and having to feel like somebody in the liquor store, but it was very diffi=
cult.
Now we make it less than difficult.
W=
e put
funny sayings on them, we put them at sporting events, and we get them out
there in the effort to reduce teen pregnancy. But it still happens. We still
have teen pregnancies, even with all the prevention and all aspects that are
available to youngsters, we still see it. We still see the sexual diseases =
that
are transmitted among young people. It is high — still high, even with
the protection that we provide them and the sexual education that is provid=
ed
to these young people in schools. Prevention is something I talked to the
Auditor General about. How do you measure it? How do you know if it is succ=
essful?
That is the example that I gave — smoking. How did she prove that? For
the last 30 years, we spent umpteen millions of dollars on preventing smoki=
ng
— how did she prove that the action met the goal? They can’t;
it’s difficult. So the question is: what do we do?
T=
he member
opposite has looked at it, and I believe that we have to look at doing a
wellness movement — again, trying to cut down on obesity in our young
people, cutting down on diabetes in our young people. In the north, we have
diabetes that affects our First Nation people very, very much. Again, it’s diet control. When I was in the north, I was
totally taken aback that these individuals will drink Coke by the litre bottles — the litre<=
/span>
and a half bottles — and not drinking milk or water, for that matter.=
Yet
they’ll bring that expensive beverage in from the south. So getting
prevention out there, using the wellness movement, and getting an improveme=
nt
of the diet of the individuals — we’re working in the schools. =
Many
of the schools have already developed their own program for getting rid of =
the
sugar. We’re looking at many issues, in addition to helping them. The
wellness strategy will address, basically, the risk factors that contribute=
to
obesity, heart disease and other chronic conditions.
T=
he
department will complement the healthy aging strategy and the social inclus=
ion
strategy and invite all Yukoners in all sectors to work together in a pursu=
it
of wellness. No one sector has a solution by itself. In other jurisdictions
— for example, Health and Social Services is broken out from the heal=
th
wellness facility. There is a Minister of Health Wellness and there is a Mi=
nister
of Health and Social Services, so they’re split and their goal on the=
health
and wellness aspect is prevention, looking at ways and means for communitie=
s to
be healthy, dealing with the issues as they relate to young people, and aga=
in,
trying to combat what they see on TV and as far as drinks go — sugar
drinks that is — and I think it’s very important that we work w=
ith
these individuals to get them moving again. Get some sort of physical educa=
tion
back into our programming so that the kids get out and we get to play a lit=
tle
bit more ball hockey and more activities.
W=
e need more
activities for all our Yukoners, from age five to 65 — to 75, for that
matter. We are working through many programs; we support the kids
recreational fund to help kids have physical activities. We also do Food for
Learning for the children in our schools. We want to ensure that the member=
opposite
knows that also — that kids, when they come to school, if they’=
re
not getting a breakfast at home, if they’re not being supervised at h=
ome
— I always have an interesting conversation with my wife when I go ho=
me,
because she’s a teacher, and it’s amazing the stories she tells=
me
about her kids. I’m totally amazed at how some of these young people
actually ever make it through the education system when there is nobody at =
home
to look after them, there’s nobody there to ensure they get to school,
there’s no truancy officer who runs around and, even if there was, wh=
at
are they going to do? Fine them? They can’t afford to pay.
I=
t’s
really a difficult situation, and it’s difficult to get everyone onsi=
de.
I think it is important that the parents understand that they are an import=
ant
part of their children growing up. I also think it is incumbent upon us to =
give
them every venue that we can to allow every Yukoner a chance to participate=
in
physical activity and to improve their own well-being. I feel that those are
two key aspects in working toward this gap that we are looking at in the
future. I think the key aspect, unfortunately, is just what we get from Ott=
awa,
and how we negotiate that deal through our other jurisdictions and territor=
ies
as it relates to the federal government, and how that money is going to come
back because every jurisdiction in Canada — in fact, the other two
territories are even worse off than we are when it comes to the health
situation as it relates to travel, as it relates to services in their
territories. It is very difficult for
I=
look
forward to working on ways in which we can improve the physical aspects for=
all
Yukoners.
O=
ne of the
main items that I picked out of the review of what we heard on the <=
st1:State>
Mr. Mitchell:
I thank the minister for the
response. I think he might have answered six or seven questions I hadn̵=
7;t
asked yet, but I will compliment him for bringing it back at the end to the
fact that he is talking about one of the solutions, or one of the ways, to
address the gap, which is prevention and a wellness approach to help keep c=
osts
down. He gave some examples in terms of FASD, diabetes, obesity and heart d=
isease,
and I think they were good examples. I am glad he clarified that he canR=
17;t
have a policeman follow every pregnant woman around to prevent their ingest=
ion
of alcohol, because I think there was a previous Yukon Party Health ministe=
r a
number of years back whose proposed solution was to incarcerate expectant
mothers to prevent them from drinking. That was not a very forward-looking =
plan
either.
J=
ust to ask
a follow-up question while we are on the topic of the gap and the agreements
that need to be renegotiated by 2014, the THAF and the THSSI funding I beli=
eve
were running out. Is there currently a gap between 2012 and 2014, or is the=
re
an agreement in place to maintain the funding in that interim period? Other=
wise
I think the funding would be short somewhere around the $5 million per year
mark.
Hon. Mr. Hart: I will try to be direct and succinc=
t on
the member opposite’s question. The program THSSI actually expires in
2012; however, we are actively involved with the Minister of Health.
We’ve had many discussions with her in regard to this. We are reasona=
bly
confident that this is going to be extended to 2014, because that is when t=
he
major health program is scheduled for renewal for the rest of
Mr. Mitchell:
I thank the minister for the
response. Just for clarification, is it the Health minister who is leading =
the
discussions for
Hon. Mr. Hart: This is a joint meeting of the depu=
ty
ministers of both Health and Finance.
Mr. Mitchell:
I thank the minister for that
clarification and his response. Getting back to the numbers, both statistic=
al
and financial, in the budget in front of us, on page 12-35 there are some
statistics regarding mental health care. I’m just looking for a
clarification. The numbers of direct and indirect clinical hours — and
there are footnotes attached to this. We’ll start with the comparables
— 2009-10 actual, 10,944 direct and indirect clinical hours; 2010-11
estimate, 10,000 hours; 2010-11 forecast, 10,000 hours; 2011-12 estimate, 7=
,000
hours.
N=
ow, I know
that the footnotes indicate that in 2009-10 and in 2010-11 there was an inc=
rease
in program delivery due to the additional resources made available by
time-limited funding. At one point, until a short while ago, we were being =
told
that some rural mental health treatment programs that were, I guess,
time-limited or sunsetting, were going t=
o be allowed
to expire.
T=
hen the
minister indicated publicly — I think there was a news release —
that the department had found the funding within its resources to carry for=
ward
with these programs. Were these estimates for 2011-12 simply prepared before
the announcement of the restored funding? It would be wonderful to know tha=
t the
mental health of Yukoners was so improved, but we do know mental health iss=
ues
and mental health disease are very difficult problems in society, not only =
in
If
anything, there’s probably an under-reporting of the scope of the pro=
blem
and the need that’s there. Are these numbers simply an error in the
statistics and, if so, that’s fine, or is there actually a plan to ha=
ve
fewer treatment hours in the coming year?
Hon. Mr. Hart: The budget were=
prepared prior to the direction to amend the health care so that mental hea=
lth
patients will receive that care as they have been in the past.
Mr. Mitchell:
I thank the minister for that
clarification and I’m going to presume then, when the minister is next
responding, if the updated estimates will be 10,000 hours again or whatever
number, but it’s not a decrease and that’s good to know. We do =
appreciate
that there’s always timing issues with the preparation of a budget.
I=
’m
sort of poring through my notes here to try to cover off a few topics at on=
ce.
I want to go back to the issue of mental health. I know that at the hospita=
l,
to deal with acute mental health issues, the government opened up the secure
wing, which I believe has four or five beds to deal with people suff=
ering
from acute mental health issues who need to be in a secure environment.
H=
owever, we
also know that there is another issue, and that is the issue of people who =
need
more long-term treatment residential options.
C=
urrently
we don’t really have a residential treatment option in
Hon. Mr. Hart: I think I will try to approach it
somewhat differently in response, but I will try to give the response the m=
ember
is looking for. The
I=
n the
T=
he
forensic patients of
O=
n an
annual basis, I sign many, many contracts for many hundreds of thousands of
dollars, and I have asked this question many, many times. The economies of
scale are just not here for that type of service.
I=
would
love to have it. I’d love to do it — the member opposite indica=
ted
that it’s nice to be close to family — but in many cases it is =
the
family that caused the problem. We need to have this individual looked after
and the family can’t look after the individual, so we have to go out =
and,
as I said, it’s very specialized and every case is different. For eve=
ry
case we try to adapt the best service that we can for the client. Each
individual client is different.
I=
t’s
kind of like — and I hate doing comparisons — dialysis in
O=
therwise,
for example, what was happening is, they would train. Then, of course, they
couldn’t get enough hours, so they left. We do our best. I think, as =
the
member opposite even indicated once before, Yukoners have a tendency to pro=
vide
the best service we can with the resources that we have. I don’t thin=
k we
have to look very far other than the Festival of Trees to see what the
I=
can tell
the member opposite that I’ve talked to several physicians across
A=
s I said
to the member opposite, I sign these contracts all the time and I have asked
the question many times: can we do it ourselves? The case just isn’t
there for us to build a facility. You know, we could probably build a facil=
ity,
but it would be extremely, extremely difficult for us to staff it and to co=
ntinue
staffing it. We have the services of
A=
s I said,
it is a very specialized field; a very specialized, demanding aspect. We are
talking 24 hour-a-day care, 365 days a year. I don’t know how else to=
say
it, but for us — we are in the process of trying to get the specialis=
ts
to come here. Where we can and where it is feasible for us to do it, we do =
it.
B=
ut cardiac
— same thing — we still don’t have the numbers to put in a
cardiology facility here in
Chair: Order please. Committee of =
the
Whole will recess for 15 minutes.
<= o:p>
Recess
Chair: Order please. Committee of =
the
Whole will now come to order. The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 2=
4, First
Appropriation Act, 2011-12. We will now resume general debate in Vote 1=
5,
Department of Health and Social Services.
Mr. Mitchell:
Before we recessed, I think w=
e were
talking about some mental health issues and the minister is actually posing=
a
rhetorical question — can we do this ourse=
lves
here in
I=
hope that
the minister will also look at the business case over time as to what we mi=
ght
be able to do here in
T=
he
minister was talking about the number of beds and actually identified it as=
six
in the secure unit in
T=
he Yukon
Hospital Corporation is now responsible for the hospital in
T=
he 2010-11
main estimates for O&M for the Yukon Hospital Corporation were $42.8
million, but the forecast of what we have spent has now increased to $46
million. Considering all the new responsibilities, the growth of population,
the additional specialists’ visits we anticipate having, as the minis=
ter
mentioned earlier, why are we budgeting only $46.4 million for 2011-12? Is =
this
going to be sufficient for the Yukon Hospital Corporation?
Hon. Mr. Hart: One-time only costs were incorporat=
ed
with regard to the
Mr. Mitchell:
Moving back to the hospital, =
we
have heard from the chair of the Yukon Hospital Corporation and the CEO over the past two years, as well as the announcement o=
f the
plans toward a new campus to accommodate the increased needs at
W=
e have
also heard that there is, at times, a lack of available beds and insufficie=
nt
room in Emergency and ICU. Has the government been approached for additional
funding to address some of those needs by the hospital and, if so, what have
the requests been, going forward?
Hon. Mr. Hart: There have been preliminary discuss=
ions
with the Hospital Corporation on their needs on a variety of issues with re=
gard
to the
Mr. Mitchell:
While we’re on the topi=
c of
the visiting specialists, earlier this afternoon the minister indicated that
one way in which they hope to keep costs down or get better value from the
money that’s being spent is to increase the number of visiting specia=
lists,
the number of types of visiting specialists and the frequency to Yukon so we
are not paying the extra cost of travel Outside.
T=
he
government also stated as recently as yesterday during motion debate that t=
hey
intend to use the new rural hospitals to provide for visiting specialists to
hold clinics in these rural communities. Has the government examined the
logistics of doing this? For example, specialists come up here for a set nu=
mber
of days and it’s difficult enough to arrange that. There’s eith=
er a
lengthy drive to
S=
o will
these visiting specialists be spending more time on each visit to Yukon to
accommodate the day’s travel each way to Watson Lake and Dawson ̵=
2;
or part of a day, if they are chartered by air? Has the government studied =
the
cost of using air charters, for example, to bring these visiting specialist=
s to
rural communities when they visit? What would the cost of doing that be? Has
there been any investigation of this, or is this simply an idea going forwa=
rd
that this government hopes to do?
Hon. Mr. Hart: We are following up again on this i=
ssue
with the
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, of course, while there =
are
scheduled flights to
I=
have
asked this before, both of the Hospital Corporation and of the minister.
I’ve never received a clear answer, so I’ll ask it here in gene=
ral
debate. What needs-based assessments were done prior to the government
announcing that they would build the two new hospitals: one a brand new
hospital; one a replacement on a different scale for an existing hospital? =
W=
hat
assessments or studies were done before the decision was made to transfer
responsibility for these two facilities to the Yukon Hospital Corporation a=
nd
before a decision was made to build them? I know from the chair of the Hosp=
ital
Corporation that he referred to him commissioning RPG Consulting out of
T=
hat is a
functional plan that was completed on
I=
’m
looking for what the plans were that led to the decision on the part of
government, before the additional decision was made down the road to transf=
er
the responsibility to the Hospital Corporation. If the minister can name the
study or who did the study and provide us with a copy, we can probably save=
all
kinds of time in Question Period.
Hon. Mr. Hart: With regard to dealing with the
T=
he member
likes to bring it up in the House also that originally there was a concept =
of a
continuing care facility there that was going to be built, but when we look=
ed
at matching up the facility or attaching it to the existing hospital we fou=
nd
that the existing hospital was past its prime. A decision was made to look =
at
re-evaluating our need with regard to the continuing care facility and look=
ing
at the greater need of providing a hospital — an upgrade of a hospital
facility for the citizens of Watson Lake. We went through that process. We =
had
several evaluations done of the shell that was attached to the existing
hospital.
W=
e had
several evaluations done of the
T=
hey make
the operation of the day-to-day services of the hospital here and are fully
aware. We also feel that they would be able to take advantage of purchasing
equipment and things like that, as well as supplies that the Watson
T=
hus we
entered into the one-year agreement while the feasibility study was underta=
ken
by the
T=
he Yukon
Hospital Corporation had several consultants review the situation and come =
up
with ideas. They provided the Hospital Corporation with many issues related=
to
dealing with the
T=
here were
a few issues that had to be looked at and addressed. I will say that we did
look at a couple of the building issues in regard to the structure —
that’s the new and the existing structure. They had to be dealt with.=
T=
hey were
brought up by the Hospital Corporation and an agreement was made, whereby we
would address those issues for them. After they were done, then the Hospital
Corporation would take a further look at the process. While we were doing t=
hat,
we worked with the PSC, both unions, we worked with the Hospital Corporatio=
n,
and we worked with the staff — working with them to ensure that all t=
heir
needs were being addressed and looked at. There were some issues with regar=
d to
some of the long-time YTG staff. However, the Yukon Hospital Corporation, a=
fter
their due diligence, recommended to their board that they would assume
responsibility for the
T=
here were
some questions with regard to the pension. We did have to make some adjustm=
ents
in order to accommodate a certain number of staff, in order to make it
applicable. An offer was made to every staff member prior to the transfer.
I’m happy to say that a goodly number of the staff of the existing =
span>
W=
e look
forward to many of the adjustments that were made. The Hospital Corporation=
has
made many trips down to
N=
ow, in the
past, with regard to the facility itself, the government was responsible for
hiring physicians for the Yukon=
st1:State>. We have seen some cases in=
the
past where it has been very difficult because of the lack of qualified
physicians and/or nurses and, also, the high competition among even our own
jurisdictions with regard to those health professionals.
I=
am happy
to say that we have been very successful to date in hiring both physicians =
and
nurses to staff our facilities throughout the
T=
hese are
all issues that we are working on with the Whitehorse Hospital Corporation =
to
ensure that we get the best possible care that we can for Yukoners, and als=
o so
that we can provide the best possible service in our hospitals to the clien=
ts
who have to utilize that service. I’m very, very happy that the Yukon
Hospital Corporation decided to take on the
Mr. Mitchell:
I appreciate that the ministe=
r is
trying to stick to the briefing notes and the information he’s choosi=
ng
to put on the record. First of all, he says the
=
There
may well be economies of scale because of their expertise. However, around =
the
same time that this question was even being asked in the health care review, the Yukon g=
overnment
put out an RFP for a consultant to examine whether the existing shell, as
it’s described frequently, that was initially intended to be a
multi-level — or, as the minister says, “extended” —
health care facility, could be incorporated into or repurposed as part of a=
new
hospital — a replacement facility for the old cottage hospital. Yes, =
the
minister has explained about the difficulties that were found after the
commencement of construction on the extended health care facility with the
existing hospital and why this examination was occurring. The interesting t=
hing
was that in the RFP — and I believe the successful company was Kobaya=
shi &
Zedda Architects of Whitehorse — but the =
RFP
itself identified with a possible cost of $25 million. That was identified =
in
the request to examine the possibility at the time.
N=
ow, as a
result of seeing that, which was on a government website, we asked a number=
of
questions of the Health minister and the Premier in this Assembly as to how=
the
decision process occurred from the multi-level health care facility to a
request to examine the possibility of building a hospital with a potential
budget of $25 million. On at least one occasion — I think it was in 2=
009;
I identified the date yesterday in the motion debate — the Premier
responded by saying, “So we’ve made a conscious decision on beh=
alf
of health care for Yukoners. What’s it going to cost? Whatever it cos=
ts
this territory to provide health care services to Yukoners will be the
cost.”
T=
he
minister has now identified that once the decision was made to incorporate =
the
T=
his was
before we were discussing whether it would be run by the Yukon Hospital
Corporation or the Government of Yukon. Nowhere has anyone in this House
identified a study before the functional examination that was undertaken by=
Kobayashi
& Zedda Architects to examine the utility o=
f the
existing shell, so to speak, which was there to address issues such as: were
elevator shafts the right size? Were doorways the right size in the existing
shell? Was the plumbing that was incorporated under the slab on the ground
level able to be accommodated into something that would be useful for a
hospital, as opposed to an extended health care facility? How would the iss=
ues
of admitting be addressed, which would need to occur and now does occur on a
second level? So unless the minister, when he stands again, can say,
“Yes, there was a study. It was provided to the Government of Yukon. =
It
is dated such-and-such a date. It was done by this consultant, architect,
medical professionals, and we will turn it over the members opposite”,
then we are going to come to the conclusion that no such study was ever don=
e.
Without giving us the whole history again of how many times the government
talked to the people of Watson Lake in coming to the decision to transfer t=
he responsibility
to the Yukon Hospital Corporation, which is not in dispute in this House, on
what study the Yukon Hospital Corporation took to determine a functional de=
sign
for a hospital that had already been announced with a provisional budget of=
$25
million, we can only conclude that no such study was ever undertaken. If the
minister can correct us on that, we would much appreciate it.
Hon. Mr. Hart: We have provided the member opposite
several times with the chronology of all the issues as they relate to the <=
/span>
W= e did work with our staff; our PMA did the assessments on what’s needed with reg= ard to that in addition to the information that was provided by consultants with regard to the status of the existing shell, as well as dealing with, as the member opposite indicated, the structural aspects of the facility and wheth= er or not it could be utilized for a hospital to go in. The decision to go wit= h a hospital, again, was based on the fact that the hospital would be needed, as the existing hospital was found to be in a state of disrepair and it requir= ed modernization and a change. Thus, we looked at the possibility of salvaging= the shell that was next to it with the idea that it could provide hospital facilities. I must say, we were unsure of whether that could be the case. <= o:p>
T=
hat is why
the information was taken and studies were provided by the consultants to d=
o an
assessment of this facility, not only for us, but for the Hospital Corporat=
ion,
to ensure that they could utilize this facility as a hospital. They did loo=
k at
all of the items that the member opposite indicated with regard to that
facility and to ensure that it could be completed.
W=
ith regard
to dealing with the process, we also looked at the structural aspect. There=
was
also seismic work that had to be looked at with regard to the
T=
he member
opposite indicated the second floor — there was also a big issue with
regard to the second floor for the entranceway. So a substantial amount of =
work
had to be done on the ground level in order to utilize the facility as a
hospital and in order to get the emergency vehicle, the ambulance, to come =
up
and be able to be utilized on an easier basis, as compared to the original =
design.
A
substantial amount of work was completed; a substantial number of items were
assessed by both us and the Hospital Corporation to assess the value of that
particular unit. I might add that the Hospital Corporation did its due dili=
gence
during the year of the agreement to ensure the facility would be sufficient=
to
handle the
T=
hey did
indicate to us that if there were, then they would not be taking over that
facility. We allowed them to utilize all the information that we had with
regard to the existing facility and its building history. We also allowed t=
hem
to do additional work, which they did with regard to providing that informa=
tion.
I believe the Hospital Corporation on a couple of occasions here in the Hou=
se
indicated that process and also indicated what they have done to ensure that
due diligence was done for the operation of the Watson Lake hospital.
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, there appears to be a m=
issing
link in the minister’s chronology. Perhaps we should take a field tri=
p to
where the Leakey family was=
so
successful over the years in looking for missing links, because there seems=
to
be one here. I’m going to leave it alone because the minister is not
going to answer this question. I’ve asked it enough different ways. It
appears that there never was an initial needs-assessment done before the de=
cision
was made. There were a lot of studies and assessments done after the decisi=
on
was made and a budget was identified.
T=
o move on
to some other areas that perhaps the minister can answer, there are some
examples given in the budget documents that were provided and the summaries
that were provided during the budget briefing — another briefing that=
we
attended for the Department of Health and Social Services — that
identified increased funding for NGOs. There was some identification for FA=
SSY,
for the Salvation Army, for Help and Hope for Families Society in
Hon. Mr. Hart: Yes, the Yukon Anti-Poverty Coaliti=
on is
getting an increase to their budget.
Mr. Mitchell:
Is there an amount that the
minister has at his fingertips, so to speak, that he can identify for the
record?
Hon. Mr. Hart: The Anti-Poverty Coalition is getti=
ng
$25,000.
Mr. Mitchell:
By the way, regarding some of=
the information
that the minister was putting on the record before we recessed, he made
reference to children not being able to learn and having some personal
knowledge of it, being that his wife is a teacher and the stories she comes
home with — I would echo those concerns because, as the minister know=
s,
my wife teaches in much the same area of special education as his does.
I=
also hear
reports, even insofar as the fact that, in taking children out of class to =
deal
with the Reading Recovery program — and the minister knows that’=
;s
an intensive, one-on-one program and that each Reading Recovery teacher, who
only works half-time on that aspect of their job, can only have four studen=
ts
at a time that they’re dealing with. My wife is h=
aving
to schedule, when she removes a child from the class to get that intensive
instruction, around the need for a teacher to have provided a meal to that
child, so they’re capable of learning. Among all the other
responsibilities the teachers are undertaking, it’s feeding students =
in
the classroom.
I= know the Education minister will also be concerned about these issues — that if kids come to school hungry, they’re not able to focus, they’re = not able to learn, they’re distracted and don’t have adequate nutri= ents travelling through the blood supply. We have to also address those issues.<= o:p>
A=
s we have
previously discussed, there was $100,000 in Bill No. 23, the 2010-11
supplementary budget, for “operational funding for the Riverdale youth
centre”. I’m taking that off the briefing notes that were suppl=
ied
for the supplementary budget. We had some discussion on this before regardi=
ng
the fact that there is no Riverdale youth centre to date, and there
hasn’t been an announcement of there being one.
We
don’t see any money in the 2011-12 main estimates for a Riverdale you=
th
centre, nor has the government announced a new youth centre. Considering th=
at
there was $100,000 in operational funding in the supplementary budget for
2010-11, is there, in fact, funding in this year’s main estimates, wh=
at
is the amount of the funding and when can we expect that announcement that =
there
actually is going to be a youth centre? Or can we not expect one until ther=
e is
a campaign?
Hon. Mr. Hart: As I indicated earlier, the money w=
as to
be given to the Riverdale community for planning and to develop their busin=
ess
case to bring forth a situation to inform us what kind of programming would=
be
provided, where it would be provided and how it would be administered within
the Riverdale community.
T=
hat is
underway. That is what that money was for. It is intended to ensure that th=
ey
can move forward with these issues and that they can hire a consultant to
ensure that all the issues are addressed and that they put forth the best b=
usiness
case they can to have a community centre in Riverdale.
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, just to follow up, was =
there
a date by which the society or the organization is required to provide that
business case for the funding provided to them, and what is that date?
Hon. Mr. Hart: The money is, as I indicated, for
start-up money for programming for the fall and a long-term plan. That is w=
hat
the funding is for, until such time as I know exactly what it is for —
and then it will go from there. No, I’m corrected — they tell me
it’s the spring. So, anyway, it’s just a matter of ensuring tha=
t we
have a good business case and we have a long-term plan that can be met and
meets the requirements for the Riverdale community, and that it has an oppo=
rtunity
to succeed and provide services for the citizens of Riverdale.
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, perhaps funding for thi=
s is
something that will show up in a supplementary budget later this year.
I’m wondering if there are any other such studies being undertaken,
perhaps for Porter Creek or other areas, or is this the one and only study =
in terms
of a new youth centre — or, for that matter, for other rural communit=
ies
as well?
Hon. Mr. Hart: This will be used as a pilot projec=
t and
is one of the reasons why we want to take the time to ensure that it is the=
re
because it may be something that other communities can utilize in their
situation. This is why we are looking at this, and we want to make sure tha=
t it
is something — not off somebody’s desk, but something that can =
be
used in other jurisdictions.
Mr. Mitchell:
Moving on to other areas, reg=
arding
811 service, we were told by officials at the briefing that we have to start
looking at what we can afford, and we need to get to 2014. That, I think,
refers to the fact that this is one of the services that was funded by THAF=
and
THSSI and we’re awaiting a renewal.
S=
o the
simple question is, will this service be continued or is that dependent upon
whether or not there’s a renewal or extension of funding? Has the
government done any evaluations of this service to determine whether
they’re getting good value from it?
Hon. Mr. Hart: As with any plan or any programming=
under
the federal program of THAF and THSSI, an evaluation has to be completed and
provided to the federal government on the value and service provided.
Mr. Mitchell:
Has the government made any
decision to carry this program forward on an interim basis when the current
funding runs out or is that fully dependent upon doing this evaluation? When
will the evaluation be completed?
Hon. Mr. Hart: We will do the evaluation. That ass=
essment
will be done. When the evaluation is complete, then a decision will be made=
. An
evaluation has to be done prior to the determination of the THAF agreement.=
Mr. Mitchell:
The minister, earlier on in d=
ebate
or in his introductory remarks, spoke about the Thomson Centre and indicated
that the first bed should be made available in May of this year. That was t=
he
target date. Can the minister provide a date that this 19-bed pod, as it has
been referred to, or wing, will be fully operational? What additional plans=
are
there for adding other services within the Thomson Centre? Will it strictly=
be
used as an extended care facility or are there any other plans, such as hos=
pice
care — or palliative care, rather — that may be included?
Hon. Mr. Hart: Renovations to the Thomson Centre a=
re
scheduled to be completed sometime late March or early April.
W=
e had some
difficulty with regard to the building. The contractors indicated that there
will be a slight delay. Project timelines are now being finalized. We had
originally looked at the middle of April. We are now looking at the middle =
of
May. Continuing Care will require a minimum of five weeks to get ready and =
plan
for admissions in order to get staff acclimatized to their facility they are
going in. We will not open the facility to 19 people to roll in the door. It
will be done using a phased-in process. First of all, we have to get our pe=
ople
lined in. We already have the staff in place and they are either working at=
one
of our continuing care facilities currently now or some have indicated that
they want to transfer to the Thomson Centre when it opens. After the facili=
ty
is complete and renovations are in place, they will be there.
A=
s I said,
we’re looking for the first resident to be admitted sometime mid-May =
and
we can go from there. We’re anticipating they’ll be able to
hopefully see the grass come up on the other side. Maybe they will have to =
look
through the fence, but at least they’ll see the grass.
Mr. Mitchell:
The statistics on page 12-26 =
for
intermediate care show — for example, the 2010-11 estimate for Macaul=
ay
Lodge showed an average occupancy rate of 98 percent, with an average numbe=
r of
people on the waiting list of 12. That was pretty similar — eight mon=
ths
on that waiting list. In fact, the forecast was that the average number of
people was 11 with six months on the waiting list. It shows zero for 2011-1=
2,
with a footnote, and that’s because of the opening of the Thomson Cen=
tre.
D=
oes the
government feel that opening these additional beds will be sufficient to fu=
lly
eliminate any waiting? Because there appears to be, as =
the
minister has said of the demographic, an aging population with more and more
seniors looking for accommodation in Macaulay Lodge. Will this be su=
fficient
or is the government planning other facilities to also fill this need?
Hon. Mr. Hart: With regard to the continuing care =
for
Thomson Centre, we are looking at all of our continuing care facilities. We=
are
looking at the individuals who are in, for example, Copper Ridge, and who m=
ight
be able to be placed down at the Thomson Centre to make more room at Copper
Ridge. We feel that the 19 new beds, once open, =
will
accommodate a good portion of the waiting list that is there. We also have
— or are in the process, or will have completed by May — an
additional 10 rooms within the Thomson Centre that could be utilized at a
future date for that.
Mr. Mitchell:
The new health care offices t=
hat
are being incorporated into the doctors and nurses and visiting specialists
clinic — which offices of the Department of Health and Social Services
are going to be relocated to that building?
Hon. Mr. Hart: It will be corporate and regional s=
ervices.
Mr. Mitchell:
Moving to another area, on =
span>
W=
hen I last
asked about this, either the Housing minister or the Health minister —
perhaps both — indicated that the government was reviewing the busine=
ss
plan and providing advice to the organization about the plan. Can the minis=
ter
enlighten us on where this process is now and whether the government has had
their questions answered? If not, what are their additional questions? What
hoops does the organization yet have to jump through to satisfy the concerns
that the government may have with the proposal to date?
Hon. Mr. Hart: I’m pleased to advise the mem=
ber
opposite that we have met with the officials only this week with regard to
their business plan, which we have accepted, and both Health and Social
Services and now Yukon Housing Corporation will be doing their due diligenc=
e on
the business plan and making an assessment, as we would with any other prog=
ram.
Mr. Mitchell:
Well, that is indeed good new=
s that
things have advanced. Can the minister provide us with a timeline of how lo=
ng
they will need to study the plan before making a decision on whether they c=
an
financially support this proposal or whether more work is needed? What is t=
he
timeline we’re looking at?
Hon. Mr. Hart: We anticipate it will take a couple=
of
weeks for Yukon Housing Corporation to do their due diligence on the propos=
al.
Then it will go through the normal process with regard to funding.
Mr. Mitchell:
I thank the minister for that
response. We will look forward to hearing more about this when a decision is
made.
A=
gain,
getting to other reports, there was the report from the Task Force on Acute=
ly
Intoxicated Persons at Risk, which was dated
T=
here were
a number of recommendations in the report on severely intoxicated persons at
risk. I will refer the minister to recommendation 4: “A new sobering
center should be created in downtown
T=
he report
goes on to say, “A new facility which removes care and management of a
person detained while acutely intoxicated from the RCMP cells is universally
desired.” It talks about the fact that RCMP personnel are not trained=
to
treat or even assess the medical needs of acutely intoxicated persons.
T=
he report
says “Option #1: The qu=
estion
of where this new facility should be located is significant. Our recommendation is that it shou=
ld be
downtown, close to the common drinking areas. People will ultimately be released=
from
detention and should have close proximity at that time to their social netw=
orks
and personal resources.
Additionally it will be easier to co-locate the new sobering center =
with
Detox and with easier access to Alcohol and Drug Services (ADS) staff and
resources if it is located in the downtown core.
&=
#8220;Option
#2: Department of Justice is =
in
favour of locating a new detention centre at Whitehorse Correctional Centre
(WCC). They are well advanced in planning, with good attention to staffing =
and
resource access. This plan has several disadvantages from our point of view=
. First
and foremost, Whitehorse Correctional Centre is a jail.”
D=
espite
their best intentions, detention there will still be viewed as punishment. =
It
will be difficult, if not impossible, to create a new societal perception
within the confines of a jail. There are additional items and options here =
in
the report, but I don’t want to read it all.
S= imultaneously, with making public the report itself, as part of the news conference that w= as held in January, it was announced there would be a modification to the new = Whitehorse Correctional Centre that’s currently under construction and that there would be a secure facility for intoxicated persons at risk attached to the Whitehorse Correctional Centre. This would appear to be directly in opposit= ion to the recommendation in the very report co-authored by Dr. Beaton and Chief Allen that was being announced simultaneously with the other announcement.<= o:p>
N=
ow, I will
say for the record that it is obviously an improvement to have a secure
facility with medical supervision located anywhere compared to, as the Prem=
ier
referred to it, the old drunk tank. However, we think that the recommendati=
ons
in this report bear a lot of merit. When we were in the briefing, department
officials indicated that additional options for a downtown facility were st=
ill
being considered and to stay tuned — that there would be an announcem=
ent
shortly. There was no explanation that could be provided as to where the fu=
nding
would come from. The minister has made some references to this as well.
A= nother component that was recommended in the report is that the newly created sobering centre should be co-located with an expanded detoxification facility and that a shelter should also be built or created in close proximity to this.<= o:p>
W=
hen I
previously asked the minister how this was going to be done, the minister
indicated they were working with NGOs — non-governmental organizations
— to try to come to a solution and that there was an expectation there
would be an announcement in the not-too-distant future.
I=
asked the
minister what NGOs the minister’s department was working with, and the
minister compared it to not announcing names in the Assembly of individuals
because they’re not in a position to respond. I would have to say I
don’t accept that analogy. We understand why we don’t name
individuals in the Legislature who aren’t here to respond, but if the
government is working with non-governmental organizations to jointly provid=
e a
service to Yukoners, then this is the very place we have to ask that questi=
on.
We could ask it of the NGOs, but we’d have to ask it of every NGO in =
the
I=
t’s
the government we have to ask the question of because the government is goi=
ng
to have to come up with the solution.
W=
e’ve
heard again and again that there’s a need for at least one shelter in
downtown
O=
ne
possible solution is the one I previously referred to, the Northern City
Supportive Housing Coalition, which hopes to provide 20 beds for Yukoners w=
ho
are without a decent place to live or any place at all. That would certainly
take some of the pressure off, but it may not be the only solution. I am
interested in learning from the minister what is being done. There is nothi=
ng
we can see in the budget or in the long-term capital plan to address this,
other than a promise from the minister.
M=
r. Chair,
seeing the time, I move that we report progress.
Chair: It has been moved by Mr. Mi=
tchell
that Committee of the Whole report progress.
Motion
agreed to
Hon. Ms. Taylor: =
Mr. Chair, I move that the Speaker =
do now
resume the Chair.
Chair: It has been moved by Ms. Ta=
ylor
that the Speaker do now resume the Chair.
Motion
agreed to
Speaker
resumes the Chair
Speaker: I will now call the House t=
o order.
May the House have a report from the Chair of Committee of the Whole?
Chair’s report
Mr. Nordick: Committee of the Whole has considered Bil=
l No.
24, First Appropriation Act, 2011-12, and directed me to report prog=
ress
on it.
Speaker: You have heard the report f=
rom the
Chair of Committee of the Whole. Are you agreed?
Some Hon. Members: =
b> Agreed.
Speaker: I declare the report carrie=
d.
T=
he time
being
<= o:p>
The
House adjourned at
The following documents were filed
11-1-171
Department of Education Strategic Plan 2011-2016: =
; Our
Commitment to New Horizons (English and French versions) (Rouble)
11-1-172
Department of Education Strategic Plan 2011-2016 and N=
ew
Horizons: Implementing the Education Reform Project Recommendations (Rouble=
)
7846 |
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p; &=
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p; HANSARD &n=
bsp;  =
; =
7845 |