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Yukon Legislative Assembly
Whitehorse, Yukon
Tuesday, November =
24, 2015
— 1:00 p.m.
Speaker: I w= ill now call the House to order. We will proceed at this time with prayers. =
Prayers
Daily
Routine
Speaker: We = will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.
Tributes.
Are th= ere any visitors to be introduced?
Introduction
of Visitors
Ms. Wh=
ite: Thank you, Mr. Speak=
er. It
gives me great honour to invite into the gallery today Ms. Bonnie Dalz=
iel.
She’s a true Yukon pioneer, an entrepreneur, an artist, a world
traveller, a social justice champion and advocate, and, I’m very luck=
y to
say, a dear friend of mine. Thank you for coming, Bonnie.
Applause
Speaker:=
195;Are there any returns or
documents for tabling?
Are there any reports of committees? <= o:p>
Are there any petitions to be presente=
d?
Are there any bills to be introduced? =
Are there any notices of motions?
Notices
of Motions
Mr. Elias: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise= to give notice of the following motion:
THAT t= his House urges the Government of Yukon to improve opportunities for camping in Yukon= by:
(1) bu=
ilding six
new campsites at the Marsh Lake
(2) ma= king facility upgrades at a variety of campgrounds throughout the Yukon, includi= ng roof repairs, replacing outhouse holding tanks, fixing boat launches and do= cks, replacing broken fire rings, fixing outhouses, removing hazardous trees and purchasing bear-proof food lockers.
Ms. McLeod: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise= to give notice of the following motion:
THAT t= his House urges the Government of Yukon to invest $1.4 million to promote and enhance mineral prospecting and exploration activities in Yukon during the 2016 fie= ld season through the Yukon mineral exploration program.
Ms. White: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise= to give notice of the following motion:
THAT t= his House urges the Government of Yukon to gather and make public reliable information about the incidence and distribution of homelessness across the territory, = and that it use the information to set a timeline for eliminating homelessness = in Yukon.
Mr. Silver: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise= to give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the Government of Yukon to inform Yukone= rs when the next Yukon Forum is to be held.
Speaker: Is = there a statement by a minister?
This t= hen brings us to Question Period.
QUESTION PERIOD
Question re: Robert Campbell Highway improvements
Ms. Hanson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The investment of public money in infrastructure has= the potential to benefit the Yukon’s economy. Allocation of public money = for needed infrastructure is most effective when there is a sound rationale and= a demonstrated need.
For ye= ars the community of Ross River has demonstrated a need for repairs to the section = of highway between Ross River and Faro and for years this government has ignor= ed the community. The Robert Campbell Highway feasibility study makes no menti= on of tourism, the residents of Ross River, Faro, Watson Lake or any other development along the highway. The study states — and I quote: “= ;All of the expenditures identified above are made necessary by the development = of a single mining project.”
Will t= he minister acknowledge that the millions of dollars invested to upgrade the Robert Campbell Highway were not done for the people of Ross River, Faro or Watson Lake —
Speaker: Ord= er, please.
Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yukoners should obviously be very proud of= the highway infrastructure that we have in place in this territory — almo= st 5,000 kilometres of all-season roads — the only road in Canada that c= rosses the Arctic Circle and the Dempster Highway. Many of those roads — we = owe their development to the resource sector. In fact, any major highway that wasn’t built for military purposes owes its existence to resource extraction and trying to access those resources. That said, Mr. Speake= r, many other industries and many Yukoners have benefitted from those roads si= nce that time, whether it’s residents travelling between communities; whe= ther it’s our visitors taking part in some of the iconic drives that we ha= ve in the territory; or whether it’s industry that takes advantage.
When i= t comes to the south Robert Campbell Highway, those are sound investments that we̵= 7;re making on behalf of Yukoners. They are putting Yukoners to work and allowing for industries to flourish, whether it’s mining, tourism or other industries. We’re proud of the investments that we have made in infrastructure and we’re going to continue to make those investments = in that infrastructure.
Ms. Hanson: Not exactly a flourishing investment so far.
This g= overnment has demonstrated time and time again that it doesn’t understand its responsibility when it comes to effectively managing public money. When the government spends public money, it should be able to demonstrate a real ret= urn to the economy. There is no evidence that the Yukon government conducted ei= ther a business case or a cost-benefit analysis for the tens of millions of doll= ars invested into the Robert Campbell Highway to support Yukon Zinc’s ope= rations. At minimum, Yukoners have a right to know the information that demonstrates that the benefits from this mine are greater than the costs undertaken to support it.
Did th= e Yukon Party government conduct a business case analysis of this investment or was= the decision to proceed purely political?
Hon. Mr. Kent: We have two very important corridors in this territory when it comes to taking= our valuable resources to market. One, of course, is the Klondike — and s= outh Klondike — Highway to the port of Skagway. The second and emerging corridor is the Robert Campbell Highway and the Stewart-Cassiar Highway down to the port of Stewart. Many mining companies are choosing that route, particularly those in the southeast Yukon. The Wolverine mine used t= hat route. There are plans for the Selwyn property when and if it goes into production to use that, as well as those that are exploring at the Kudz Ze Kayah project just north of Wolverine. They are also planning on using the port of Stewart to move their goods to market.
When w= e invest in public infrastructure, not only are we improving that infrastructure to = the benefit of industries, residents, visitors and others who travel those highways, but we’re also making investments in jobs and opportunities= for Yukoners. Again, like we said yesterday, I’m sure those individuals w= ho work for the contractors that have been busy on the south Robert Campbell Highway will be very interested to hear the Leader of the Official Oppositi= on saying there is no economic benefit. Certainly they realize that when they = put food on their tables for their families or for those students who are worki= ng on those projects in the summer to help them get through school.
Again,= we are proud of the investments we are making in infrastructure and we will contin= ue to do so in spite of what the Leader of the Official Opposition says.
Ms. Hanson: Yukon businesses that lost hundreds of millions of dollars will also be intereste= d in the minister’s response.
Mr.&nb= sp;Speaker, this year’s Geoscience Forum saw a presentation by the Alaska Industr= ial Development and Export Authority. The organization’s mandate is to encourage economic growth by providing various means of financial support f= or development, free from political interference. They require projects to sat= isfy certain criteria before receiving public money for infrastructure funding. Projects must be able to demonstrate economic benefit to the state and to t= he general public; also, that the project applicant is financially responsible= and the project must be able to produce revenue to repay the investment with wh= ich it is financed. Mr. Speaker, the Wolverine mine did not satisfy a sing= le one of these criteria.
Has the government considered using a framework similar to Alaska to ensure Yukon’s public money is invested in an intelligent manner —
Speaker: Ord= er, please.
Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We’ll continue to invest in public infrastructure, whether it’s our highways or our airports; investing = in new schools; investing in health care. Those are important investments that= we make each and every year on behalf of Yukoners.
Mr.&nb= sp;Speaker, again, this really, to me, illustrates the lack of understanding that the Leader of the Official Opposition and indeed, the entire NDP has when it co= mes to what a successful mining industry needs here in the territory. We’= ve heard over and over again from individuals in that sector that infrastructu= re is one of the pillars that they need for us to improve to make ourselves competitive. We’re fortunate here in the Yukon that we do have all-weather roads that access year-round ports — the one in Skagway a= nd the one in in Stewart. The Robert Campbell Highway is an important piece of infrastructure that is worthy of improving, not only for those industrial clients, but also for visitors and residents.
Again,= Mr. Speaker, when it comes to heavy industrial traffic, the existing road would potentia= lly have been a safety concern, so we want to make sure that anyone using that = road is safe and has confidence in that road when they’re travelling to fe= el safe when there’s industrial traffic on there. Again, Mr. Speake= r, the NDP will continue to criticize; the Leader of the Official Opposition w= ill continue to show that she does not understand what the mining industry need= s to be successful. We’ll continue to make key investments in infrastructu= re, training and regulatory matters to ensure we have a strong and healthy reso= urce sector.
Question
re: Oil and gas development
Mr. Tredger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Yukon Party approach to oil and gas development = is neither clear nor balanced. Yukon O= il and Gas: A Northern Investment Opportunity is an oil and gas branch publica= tion geared at investors. It states — and I quote: “Drilling mud and cutting disposal sumps will not require a water licence if the Alberta Energy Resources Conservation Board directive 50 is followed”. But just last week, in response to a question about drill waste disposal sumps, the Minister of Environment stated and again, I quote: “Ultimately it’s the Water Board that decides when a water lice= nce is required”.
Mr.&nb= sp;Speaker, both investors and citizens want clarity, so when it comes to drill waste, which is correct — the oil and gas branch or the Minister of Environm= ent?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Again, we in the government are excited by= the opportunities that the oil and gas industry presents for Yukoners. There are many economic and business opportunities that will emerge from the developm= ent of this industry.
WeR= 17;re in a fortunate position here in the territory. When it comes to this industry, t= here have been a very limited number of wells drilled historically. It does go b= ack to the 1950s, I believe, when the first wells w= ere drilled. We did have producing wells in the southeast Yukon that contributed economically through royalties and other opportunities to the territory.
Again,= I’m proud of the work that the oil and gas branch does, as the regulator for th= is industry. They continue to develop and ensure that we have robust and modern regulations in place, designed to regulate all development activities in a manner that protects the safety of the people and of our environment.
We hea= rd this from the Leader of the Official Opposition a number of years ago. She criticized the individuals who work in the oil and gas branch and actually suggested on the floor of the House that she wasn’t sure what exactly they did. That shows a very clear disrespect for our hard-working public officials when it comes to regulating oil and gas. We’ll continue to = work with our officials and ensure that we have a strong and robust regulatory system here in the territory.
Mr. Tredger: A Yukon oil and gas branch publication says that no water licence is required= to dispose of drill waste from oil and gas exploration, as long as AlbertaR= 17;s directive 050 is followed, yet the Minister of Environment says it’s = the Water Board that decides when a water licence is required.
These = messages are contradictory. The government is not creating a clear investment climat= e, nor is it protecting Yukon’s water with robust regulations. When it c= omes to disposing of drill waste, does the government recommend that investors follow information from the oil and gas branch, or should they listen to the Minister of Environment?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
When i=
t comes to
individual projects, if there is a water licence that is deemed to be requi=
red,
we will follow what the licence sets out, as far as what is needed. Some projects, whether oil and gas or others, require envir=
onmental
assessments. Based on those recommendations, we have the ability to accept,
reject or modify that through a decision document, and then there are other
regulatory processes that are often in place, depending on the project.
Again,= when it comes to assessments and licensing and permitting, we will follow what is l= aid out by the appropriate body and that is what we intend to do.
Mr. Tredger: This is about government contradictions, not a YESAA application. When the oil a= nd gas branch says one thing about drill waste and the Minister of Environment says another, there is no clarity for industry and there is no robust protection for water. To dispose of drill waste in areas of extensive permafrost, it does not make sense to rely on Alberta’s directive 050. That is because directive 050 does not address permafrost.
In the= Northwest Territories, drill waste from oil and gas exploration was thought to be fro= zen into permafrost, but it is leaking into four lakes.
Why is= the government planning to rely on drill waste regulations that are not suitable for Yukon’s extensive permafrost?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
What t= he member opposite is really outlining for us is a hypothetical situation. This is ve= ry much a hypothetical question when it comes to activity in the Yukon. When it comes to our oil and gas resources, we do have a robust and modern regulato= ry system that’s in place. We have the opportunity to borrow from neighbouring jurisdictions with respect to what type of regulations and what type of activity should be regulated and how it’s regulated. <= /p>
I am v= ery confident in the officials who work in the oil and gas branch of Energy, Mi= nes and Resources to ensure that our environment and human health and safety is protected. There are also interdepartmental collaborations within the government. The Department of Environment plays an important role in assist= ing Energy, Mines and Resources when it comes to these types of resources. As I said in a previous response, when a water licence is required or if a water licence is required, we will follow the terms and conditions, but we prefer= to live in the real world rather than the hypothetical world outlined by the Member for Mayo-Tatchun.
Question
re: F.H. Collins Secondary School reconstruction
Mr. Silver: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This week I have been aski= ng some questions about infrastructure projects that this government has had 13 years or so to address but has failed to do so. We know that the next new h= ydro project and the paving of the Dawson City runway and also the project to fix our Internet service are all going to be resolved by the next government, n= ot this one. One project this government has tackled is the rebuilding of F.H. Collins. It was promised last election, restarted and should be ready if the tech ed wing comes i= n on time by the next election. In the spring the minister said that the cost for this project to date was $46 million.
The qu= estion to the minister is: Does this figure include $5 million spent on the scrapped design for F.H. Collins 1.0?
Hon. Mr. Kent:= span> Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. During departmen= tal debate in Highways and Public Works, I believe the Member for Klondike aske= d a similar question. What I committed to at that time was that once we find out the final costs for some of the work that has yet to be completed, such as = the tech ed wing, as wel= l as the demolition of the existing school, we’ll be in a better position to outline what the final costs are. I guess the one thing that is important to note is that on construction alone, the bids for the initial F.H. Collins design came in at $48 million. The bids for the subsequent design and the n= ew school that is on-site came in at approximately $34 million. That gave us s= ome flexibility. That $48 million was approximately $10 million over what the construction budget was.
I thin= k it is also important to note that students and staff and parents and all of those= in the F.H. Collins school community will have a fantastic facility to learn i= n, a very modern facility, and they should be very proud of that. We look forwar= d to the opening of that facility in the new year.
Mr. Silver: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am talking about money t= hat has already been spent. We just want to know if the numbers that they are u= sing involve that $5 million from the project that was scrapped. If we add that = $5 million that was already scrapped and $3.5 million to fix the tech ed wing, Yukon taxpayers a= re going to be paying just about the same amount of money as for that first original scrapped design. Of course, we are getting a much smaller school and we are getting it years behind schedule.
Recent= ly the minister confirmed another problem with this project. Students are schedule= d to move out of the old F.H. Collins in January. Unfortunately, the government = will have to heat the entire building for the rest of the winter because the ten= der to fix the tech ed w= ing is so behind schedule. This could have been avoided if the project had been properly managed, and the tech ed<= /span> wing tender had been ready when it was supposed to be.
How mu= ch extra cost is this adding to an already overbudget pr= oject? We must have some numbers.
Hon. Mr. Kent:= span> Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I didn’t think it was that long ago th= at we talked about Highways and Public Works in departmental debate, but clear= ly the member opposite has forgotten some of the answers that I provided to hi= m at that time.
Again,=
with
respect to the tech ed wing,
there are some delays. We originally anticipated it being ready for move-in
with the new school in the new year. The process=
that
we chose to follow was a design/build bid, so we had to wait for the design=
to
be completed before we could get bids and tenders. The tender has closed an=
d we
have yet to award it, but the numbers are in with respect to the tech ed wing upgrades. <=
/p>
When i=
t comes to
another aspect that the member opposite has forgotten — when it comes=
to
heating of the tech ed wing
in the meantime, we will be closing off parts of the existing F.H. Collins
school so that we can minimize the amount of the new school that will have =
to
be heated. This i=
s just an
opportunity for me to remind the member opposite of what was said during
departmental debate with respect to this project. I should repeat — an
exciting project, an exciting new addition not only to Riverdale but for all
Yukoners to take advantage of, and a new, modern learning facility for stud=
ents
both now and many years into the future. Mr. Silver: If
the minister wants to be forthright, he could tell us if that $5 million was
included in that $46 million number. We kno=
w that, at
the end of the day, this project will be overbudget
or cost just as much money as the design for the original scrapped design. =
The idea that this is going to save us any money —
that’s a Yukon Party myth. We kno=
w that
this project is years behind schedule. We know that millions were spent on a
design that was never going to be used. We know that millions of dollars fl=
owed
out of the territory when the government proactively decided to award the
contract to a construction company outside the Yukon. We know that the Yukon
Party has a proven track record of being unable to manage these larger
projects. Two rural hospitals, the new LNG facility and the Dawson waste-wa=
ter
treatment facility — all examples of projects that were millions of
dollars overbudget and plagued by project manag=
ement
issues. The pr=
ocess has
been repeated time and time again. Why do we have the same problems every t=
ime
this government tries to accomplish a larger asset build? Hon. Mr. Kent: Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker. Again, when the project is complete —
the numbers are in place for the demolition of the old school as well as
upgrades to the tech ed wing — we will be=
in a
position to an apples-to-apples comparison of what the original design would
have cost, given that $10 million that we were over on construction, versus
what we’re getting with our new school. Of course, the sunk cost of t=
he
original design will be included in that comparison at that time. =
p>
I do f=
ind it
interesting that the Member for Klondike — when the $48-million bid f=
irst
came in, the member issued a press release showing how outraged he was, cal=
ling
on the government to either redesign the school or move the school, or to s=
low
it down. I think it was last week when one of my colleagues mentioned that =
the
only thing consistent about the Member for Klondike and the Liberal Party is
their inconsistency. Let=
217;s just
take a look at the Dawson runway and his big rush to get that project done
without all of the information in place. As I mentioned last week during debate on the Daw=
son
City runway, the Member for Klondike really wants us to move forward without
all the information — go ahead — but he would be the first to
criticize if it were overbudget. Again,
we’ll continue to do the hard work and the homework, and the member
opposite can continue to criticize — but only on a case-by-case basis
with different criticisms for each project. Question
re: Continuing care facilities Ms. Stick: Yesterday
I asked this government for evidence that it consulted Yukoners on the prop=
osed
Whistle Bend continuing care facility before putting the project out to ten=
der.
They either would not or could not produce this evidence. In
September’s NDP town hall on continuing care in the Yukon, nearly 100
Yukoners came out to share their stories. They spoke strongly and clearly in
favour of the right to safely age in place; 65 Yukoners completed a survey
distributed during that evening, and two out of three respondents said they=
do
not feel supported to age in place. When w=
e asked
Yukoners where this government should invest its health dollars, they told =
us
that their priorities are wellness and home care. Mr. Speaker, when wi=
ll
this minister listen to the two out of three Yukoners who want more of the
supports they need to safely age in place? Hon. Mr. Nixon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.&nb=
sp;Speaker,
in addressing the member opposite, what this government has recognized is t=
hat
there is a need today and a great need in the future for a facility such as
this for Yukoners. This facility will address some of the greater needs of
Yukoners as they age — those Yukoners who are simply not able to stay=
in
their homes any longer. WeR=
17;ve
increased the budgets for home care by some 350 percent over the last numbe=
r of
years to address the need that the member is obviously talking about, to ke=
ep
those Yukoners in their homes for as long as possible. But at a point in ti=
me
when that is not possible any more, we need to move forward with a business
case and the facility that we are building in Whistle Bend. We’ve
completed two needs assessments and a business case. We continue to have
dialogue with Yukon stakeholders, and we’re very proud of this projec=
t as
we move forward. Working with the Minister of Highways and Public Works and=
his
department, I am confident that in the coming weeks we will have something =
very
important to announce. Ms. Stick: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker. There are lots of needs but this government hasnR=
17;t
asked Yukoners what they want. Since this government announced their decisi=
on
to build a continuing care facility in Whistle Bend, they keep pretending t=
hat
this decision was a result of careful planning and public consultation, but
e-mails and statements from continuing care management show the opposite. T=
hey
raise doubts about the size and location of the facility and about the hast=
ily
organized information sessions over two years after the final report on this
facility was completed. Well, =
Mr. Speaker,
only 13 percent of survey respondents think the Yukon government is on the
right track. What will the minister do to gain back the trust of those Yuko=
ners
who feel ignored and overlooked when it comes to their continuing care need=
s? Hon. Mr. Nixon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would certainly encourage the m=
embers
opposite to pay attention as this project moves forward. This government has
had continual dialogue with stakeholders, including the medical association=
and
seniors groups. We value that input as we move forward on this project.
Certainly, we recognize that there are growing wait-lists and those wait-li=
sts
need to be identified. The new facility that we are building in Whistle Bend
will include areas that will cover off palliative care, dementia and mental
health, and we are looking forward to expanding those services. Some of tho=
se
— Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible) Hon. Mr. Nixon: Sorry, Mr. Speaker — the Leader of the Official
Opposition continues to talk off-mic, but we continue to make those investm=
ents
in home care. We are looking forward to new programming around mental healt=
h to
keep some of those seniors who have perhaps traditionally needed to leave t=
he
territory for specialized services — to keep them in the territory cl=
oser
to the home. We have continued dialogue with stakeholders, as I have indica=
ted
on the floor of this House time and time again. We continue to work with our
partners, including Highways and Public Works, and we are very much looking
forward to this facility opening upon its completion. Ms. Stick: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker. That consultation with health care professionals is a
pretty recent one. The Yu=
kon NDP
cares about the community’s vision for continuing care because we know
that, although small in number, Yukoners have bold, intelligent and creative
ideas — but the Yukon government is not listening. How do we know thi=
s?
We asked and 91 percent of survey respondents said they oppose or have seri=
ous
concerns about the government’s Whistle Bend complex. Yet, yesterday,=
the
minister said — and I quote: “We have talked to many seniors; t=
hey
are excited about this project.” Where =
is the
evidence? It is time for this government to slow down, listen to Yukoners a=
nd
get this right. Will the minister take responsibility for this project and =
put
it on hold until they have meaningful consultation with Yukoners from across
the territory? Hon. Mr. Nixon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the member opposite, I do take
responsibility for this project. This is an important project. As we move
forward, this will address issues that we see in the hospital on a daily ba=
sis.
It will address issues that we see in other continuing care facilities here=
in
the territory and it will address issues that we expect to have with growing
wait-lists and an increasing number of seniors who live in the territory.
We’re excited to see an expansion of programming in the new facility =
to
cover the palliative care, dementia and mental health. WeR=
17;re
proud of the investments we’ve made in home care to keep those other
seniors living in their homes as long as possible, but the member opposite
clearly hasn’t been paying attention. We’ve had input from
stakeholders on this project for a number of years and, in fact, those
discussions helped us form the needs assessment and the business case as we=
move
forward. WeR=
17;ll
continue the dialogue with stakeholders; we’ll continue to invest in
seniors’ and Yukoners’ health; and we’ll continue to forge
relationships with other departments and other organizations in the territo=
ry.
This Yukon Party government is proud of projects like this and certainly lo=
ok
forward to the opening of this facility in the coming years. Question
re: Dog Act application to
unincorporated communities Mr. Barr: In
Yukon municipalities, it is fairly easy to deal with problem animals. When a
resident needs to do so, they call the city to dispatch a dogcatcher to ass=
ess
and remedy the problem. The process is legislated under Yukon’s Dog Act. However, in Yukon’s
unincorporated communities, canine issues are more complicated. Since they =
are
not included under the scope of the Dog
Act, the RCMP often find themselves responding to dog issues, which usu=
ally
involve a policeman destroying problem animals that are deemed to pose a th=
reat
to the public. Mr.&nb=
sp;Speaker,
it’s 2015 and Yukon should not still be as=
king
the police to shoot troublesome dogs in the street. Will the government work
with unincorporated communities and First Nation governments to expand the
scope of the Dog Act to include=
all
of Yukon communities? Hon. Mr. Dixon: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The issue of dogs, and
especially stray dogs, is something that comes up from time to time in Yukon
communities. We hear it at AYC often and from both our incorporated and
unincorporated communities. There is a different mechanism in place for
incorporated communities. They can pass bylaws and undertake action themsel=
ves,
but in unincorporated areas it’s more difficult to deal with some of
these challenges. Obviously we work closely with LACs for areas covered by
local advisory councils, but in other areas, the animal protection officers
under the Department of Environment provide a number of services that inclu=
de
spay and neutering programs as well as working with the RCMP with regard to
what some may consider problem dogs. WeR=
17;re
working at improving those services. We’re undertaking a review curre=
ntly
of the animal protection officer programs and that review came underway with
the transfer of that unit from the Department of Community Services to the
Department of Environment. So I know that the staff in that department will
continue to review those programs, determine how best they can be delivered=
and
continue to improve services for Yukoners throughout the communities in this
territory. Mr. Barr: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker. At the moment, Kona’s Coalition is leading the=
way
by offering services such as neutering and vaccinations to animals that are
cared for by low-income families. They also play an important role in educa=
ting
the community about the positive effects of animal welfare. Yukon
communities remain with little access to important resources like those
promoted by Kona’s Coalition that would go a long way to improving the
quality of life for both animals and Yukoners. Mr.&nb=
sp;Speaker,
will the government expand animal welfare services in Yukon communities? =
span> Hon. Mr. Istchenko: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The animal protection program tak=
es a
graduated approach to enforcement, similar to that employed by other branch=
es
of the Department of Environment. We emphasize education, working with our
partners — the member opposite just spoke of that — and early
intervention to help animal owners to understand their responsibilities and=
to
provide appropriate care for their animals. Our Yukon animal protection off=
icer
investigates allegations of neglect or abuse to animals under the authority=
of
the Animal Protection Act. So, Mr=
. Speaker,
the Yukon animal protection officer and the veterinarians of the animal hea=
lth
unit are prepared to offer any assistance or expertise to support
investigations by the RCMP and work with the communities. Mr. Barr: Mr. Speaker,
the difficulties in unincorporated communities has been going on for years.
Just last week, animal issues boiled over in Ross River and a stray dog was
destroyed in the street by an RCMP officer because there just isn’t a=
ny
other government remedy available in the community. The Dog Act, paired with adequate animal welfare programming like
reproductive planning, vaccinations and public education have shown that th=
ey
can create a safe environment in towns for both Yukoners and their pets. =
span> Mr.&nb=
sp;Speaker,
when will the Yukon government take action to fix this glaring gap in the r=
ole
it plays in our unincorporated communities? Hon. Mr. Istchenko: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I believe Yukoners need to kn=
ow
that we have taken action. The RCMP officers typically lead the response to=
the
complaints about dogs in communities and I’m not going to speak to any
individual cases. Our animal protection officer may also assist the RCMP
— sometimes it’s municipal officials or First Nations when
requested — specifically controlling dangerous dogs when they are a
threat to public safety. The Humane Society and other organizations current=
ly are
delivering the spay-neuter voucher project for the dogs in Yukon communities
and through the spay-neuter voucher project, at least 39 dogs in Ross River
have been sterilized over the last year, so we’re working with all our
partners in this and I think I have to give kudos to the department for the
hard work they do when it comes to animals in the Yukon. Speaker: The=
time
for Question Period has now elapsed. Notice
of opposition private members’ business Mr. Si=
lver: Thank you, Mr. Speak=
er.
Pursuant to Standing Order 14.2(3), I would like to identify the item stand=
ing
in the name of the Third Party to be called on Wednesday, November 25, 2015.
That is Motion No. 1034, standing in the name of the Member for Klondike. <=
o:p> Ms. Stick: Pursuant to Standing Order 14.2(3), I would like to ide=
ntify
the items standing in the name of the Official Opposition to be called on
Wednesday, November 25, 2015. They are Motion No. 1080, standing in the nam=
e of
the Member for Riverdale South, and Motion No. 1039, standing in the name of
the Member for Mount Lorne-Southern Lakes. Speaker: We =
will now
proceed to Orders of the day Orders of
the Day Mr. Elias: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.&nb=
sp;Speaker,
I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve i=
nto
Committee of the Whole. Speaker: It =
has been
moved by the Government House Leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair
and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole. Motion agreed to Speaker leaves the Chair Committee
of the Whole Chair (Ms. McLeod): Order. Committee of the Whole will now come to order. The matt=
er
before the Committee is general debate on Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporatio=
n,
in Bill No. 20, entitled Second
Appropriation Act, 2015-16. Do mem=
bers wish
to take a brief recess? All Hon. Members: Agreed. Chair: Commi=
ttee of
the Whole will recess for 15 minutes Recess Chair: Commi=
ttee of
the Whole will now come to order. Bill No.
20: Second Appropriation Act, 2015-=
16
— continued Chair: The m=
atter
before the Committee is general debate on Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporatio=
n, in
Bill No. 20, entitled Second
Appropriation Act, 2015-16. Yukon Housing Corporation — continued Ms. White: I
would like to welcome back the officials to the Chamber. During=
the 2011
election campaign, in my experience, housing was the single biggest issue t=
hat
was talked about on the doorstep, and not just by peopl=
e who
were renting — but predominantly by home owners themselves. Si=
nce
2011, I would suggest that housing is still in the forethought of many.
Industry and businesses have since joined the conversation. Their commercial
interests rely on the availability and affordability of housing. In my =
riding, we
have a diverse offering of housing choices. Mobile homes and parks — =
as a
matter of fact, I represent three out of the six parks in Whitehorse. There=
are
mobile homes on private lots within a condominium association set up by the
Yukon Housing Corporation back in the day, I might add, to offer Yukoners a
more affordable, secure and tenure housing option. Maybe this is something =
that
the government could revisit. There are numerous condominium complexes R=
12;
even a complex that is designed for an older population with aging in mind.=
In Tak=
hini-Kopper King, we also have older homes — some of=
the
oldest in Whitehorse. Mine was built in 1958 as army housing in Camp Takhin=
i. We hav=
e the
Barracks, which was originally owned by the federal government, and when it=
was
sold, one of the stipulations attached to the sale was that rental prices
remain affordable. It was a visionary stipulation to attach to the sale. The
Barracks is a mix-use building that, on the lower floor, has private rooms =
with
shared washroom and kitchen facilities. Bachelor and one-bedroom units are =
on
the next two floors. This i=
s also an
example of private enterprise and NGOs leaving government behind. Blood Tie=
s Four
Directions has partnered together with building management to secure housing
for their clients. They act as the go-between between client and landlord a=
nd
there have been some great successes since the program started. This is all
without government assistance. There =
are
beautiful new houses up in Raven’s Ridge — many designed with a
view and mostly with energy efficiency in mind — and, out along the F=
ish
Lake Road, we have houses and cabins that have been built off the grid. Madam =
Chair, for
years, and in the years before me, the community has been trying to underst=
and
the Yukon Party’s stance on housing. Things=
became
clear when we learned that it’s this government’s view that hou=
sing
isn’t a human right. If housing was viewed as a basic human right, th=
en
it would only make sense to follow all the studies and the evidence saying =
that
with safe, secure housing, other problems like addiction can be better dealt
with, that even in the short term, Housing First is not the only right thin=
g to
do — it is also the fiscally responsible thing to do. When the so-cal=
led
“hard-to-house” population has adequate shelter, there are fewer
visits to the Emergency department, and fewer interventions by first
responders. I have=
recently
been asking about homelessness, about housing affordability and what role
government should play in resolving these issues. To be fair, Madam Chair, =
the
current minister responsible for Yukon Housing Corporation has been the most
accessible by far. It might be worthy to note that in the four years since =
the
last election, he is also the third minister responsible for the Housing
Corporation whom I’ve had the pleasure to work with. Much o=
f my
casework has to do with housing and housing issues. I’ve highlighted
concerns faced by mobile homeowners and their housing insecurity. I know th=
at
the Residential Landlord and Tenant=
Act
rests within the Department of Community Services, but I believe that the
fallout of its shortcomings will come to rest at the feet of the Housing
Corporation when people are faced with impossible decisions. What role will=
the
Housing Corporation play if mobile homeowners are forced to move? Will a
funding stream be made available for the needed upgrades to meet the new
building standards? Will help be made available to offset the cost of
relocating? Who really knows? When I=
started
to get to know the seniors at 600 College Drive, I learned the importance of
listening patiently to the problems that seniors face, understanding that t=
he
issues facing seniors aren’t necessarily those faced by other tenants=
of
Yukon Housing Corporation. I asked previous ministers about having a senior
liaison who would work with seniors — seniors specifically — and
help with applications and be their go-to person. I have no idea who in thi=
s Chamber
has helped folks fill in an application form for Yukon Housing Corporation =
but
I imagine there have been a few. The first time I helped an elderly couple =
with
one — between bank visits, income tax searches and document searches =
at
Service Canada — it took us the better part of an entire workday to g=
et
all the information gathered and, knowing that if I somehow misread somethi=
ng
and their application was denied or deemed incomplete at the time of their
intake, it really stressed me out, knowing they would have to start again. =
But
I didn’t want to leave them on their own to do it. They had already t=
ried
two times before and they had given up. Is that what we want for our seniors
— for them to give up because the application process is so daunting?=
Madam =
Chair, I
know that the public servants within the Housing Corporation work hard. I k=
now
that they do their best within the parameters that have been set out for th=
em.
I know that when I was left with dealing with my friend Earl’s estate=
and
his apartment, they showed me nothing but kindness and help, and I am still
grateful for that. So my questions — I mean, there are many, Madam Ch=
air:
What can government, the minister and we, as elected officials, do to make =
the
jobs of the front-line staff at Yukon Housing Corporation easier? Is it hir=
ing
more people? Is it more training? Is it more supports? Do we discuss with
front-line staff the possibilities of suffering from vicarious trauma when,
day-in and day-out, they deal with the tough situations of people coming to
their desks? All possible answers are worth considering because secure shel=
ter
is an essential foundation for all people. In the=
spirit of
making housing work better for Yukoners, I have a bunch of questions that I
would like to ask today. I’m going to start with policies. On the
website, there are only three policies listed. We have the non-smoking poli=
cy,
the pet policy, and the victims of violence policy. The Yukon NDP thinks it
might be helpful if more policies were publicly available because when
we’re helping people go through the application process, we’re =
told
that they don’t meet certain policies. Well, when we don’t know
what those policies are, it’s really hard to help them understand tha=
t. For ex=
ample, as
part of their application for more appropriate seniors<=
/span>
social housing, some seniors were told to sell their existing homes prior to
making that application. Responsibly following the advice they were given,
these seniors proceeded to sell their homes before they secured a unit with=
the
Yukon Housing Corporation. Then they ended up in insecure housing and
inappropriate housing, having moved out of the home that they had sold, but=
not
having received a unit within the Yukon Housing Corporation spectrum. Senio=
rs
were not at all told about the real policy, which says that they can sell t=
heir
existing homes after they have secured a unit with Yukon Housing Corporatio=
n.
Making policies publicly available would help seniors make this important
transition more securely. It would also help their families understand the =
time
frame and how to go about it. Has the
government considered creating a housing navigator specifically for seniors?
Have they considered posting all their housing policies online? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Madam Chair, that was a lot of questions, so if I don=
8217;t
get them all, the member will have to re-ask some of them. To beg=
in, I
would like to again thank the officials for being with us here today. I wou=
ld
also like to clarify one of the questions from last time. The question was
about the discrepancy between rural Yukon and Whitehorse for income limits =
for
social housing. In accordance with the social housing agreement, CMHC ̵=
2;
or Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation — calculates and recommends
housing income limits, or HILs, every two years for the Yukon Housing
Corporation Board to consider and adopt for the social housing program. In Whi=
tehorse,
HILs are based on the Yukon rental survey, which is conducted by the Yukon
Bureau of Statistics, and utility factors provided by the regional CMHC
business centre. The Yukon Housing Corporation Board has adopted the latest
HILs for Whitehorse as recommended by CMHC. For rural Yukon, however, since
reliable rental data is not available for most small communities, CMHC inst=
ead
quantifies HILs based on the annual cost to own, maintain and service a mob=
ile
home as well as the annual cost to own, maintain and service a four-bedroom
constructed unit. Yukon Housing Corporation has considered these numbers, a=
long
with the cost-of-living factors in rural Yukon, and has adopted HILs for ru=
ral
communities that it feels better reflect the cost of living. The amounts are
15-percent higher than in Whitehorse, and this means that the upper-income
threshold for social housing eligibility in rural communities is currently
15-percent higher than in Whitehorse. The HI=
Ls are as
follows: for Whitehorse, a one-bedroom is $49,500, a two-bedroom is $54,000=
and
three bedrooms or more is $61,500. In the communities, a one-bedroom would =
be
$56,925; a two-bedroom $62,100 and three bedrooms or more is $70,725. The Y=
ukon
Housing Corporation has a number of eligibility policies that ensure
eligibility. We do, however, remove barriers for people who relocate to eit=
her
flee domestic violence or relocation from a community for medical reasons. =
In
these cases, a person would remain eligible for social housing in Whitehors=
e,
even if their income exceeds the local threshold. When it comes down to it,=
the
Yukon Housing Corporation is trying to help people who need housing most and
has instituted a number of policies to allow for flexibility. Back t=
o the
question at hand, as far as the moving of the house trailers that the member
opposite talked about, the home repair program that we currently have in pl=
ace
would allow for house trailers, so house trailers would fit into that progr=
am. In ter=
ms of a
liaison for seniors, currently tenant relations officers deal with all tena=
nts.
There is no one specifically committed for seniors; however, I have told th=
e member
opposite that I would look into this, so I will continue to explore this as=
an
option. In ter=
ms of the
policies — the policies to the Landlord
and Tenant Act are currently being reviewed, and the Yukon Housing Boar=
d is
also looking at policies this week when they have their meetings and this w=
ill
be done in time for January 1, when the Landlord
and Tenant Act comes into effect. In terms of policies on the website, =
we
will ensure that all policies are on the website and all policies are also
given to tenants when they sign a lease because we understand that some peo=
ple
are like me and aren’t so great with the Internet, so they may not use
the website. I thin=
k that
pretty much covers everything that the member opposite asked. I’m sur=
e if
it doesn’t, she’ll remind me. Ms. White: Thank
you, Madam Chair, and I thank the minister for the commitment both about
checking into having a seniors liaison specifica=
lly
and to getting the policies posted on the website. I agree about the
accessibility of just having stuff available online because I work with many
seniors who do not have online access. The re=
asoning
the minister just used for the discrepancy between the Whitehorse costs and=
the
rural costs, I am going to use a real-world example because this is somethi=
ng
that we’re faced with in making these decisions. The example I have i=
s:
We have a rural senior who lived in a community and moved into Whitehorse
because of medical purposes. Once in Whitehorse, due to aging and health
— things escalated — that rural senior who only moved to Whiteh=
orse
for medical reasons has now made an application to Whitehorse Housing and h=
as
been told that, unfortunately, she earns too much money. I actu=
ally think
that the website has just recently changed because the wording is different=
on
the page that talks about social housing. I’m just going to read this
little bit and I’m going to tell you about the change:
“Yukon’s demographic is changing due to an aging population, and
there are other factors that may influence persons to seek social housing
services. These factors include rural seniors seeking housing in Whitehorse=
for
medical reasons, victims of violence and abuse who are seeking accommodation
away from abusers and persons experiencing mobility challenges in their
existing accommodations.” In the=
example I
have just given, we have a rural senior who has moved into Whitehorse becau=
se
of medical reasons and, since being in Whitehorse, has now faced growing
mobility challenges. This senior has no problems paying 25 percent of her
income. The problem, as I understand it now, is that she has been flatly de=
nied
without explanation, based on income. Can the minister elaborate on that
policy? Hon. Mr. Hassard: As we both know, the policy, in the way it stands now, is for =
rural
citizens moving into Whitehorse with medical conditions. But, understanding=
the
situation that the member is talking about, it doesn’t work. ThatR=
17;s
why we are currently reviewing all of our policies and that will definitely=
be
one of the things that will be reviewed in the near future — to see h=
ow
we can make it more effective, I guess. Ms. White: I
hope by “effective” we mean more inclusive. I mean, prior to fa=
irly
recently, I thought that we had seniors housing, and I have since learned t=
hat
it is social housing for seniors, and that makes a big difference. <=
/p>
On the=
website
it does say that, if there are challenges with mobility — and it
doesn’t say in that point that they have to meet a certain income
requirement. If a person is willing to pay 25 percent and they would pay mo=
re
rent, it would help subsidize, for example, the senior I know who pays $38 a
month. We could have a little bit of offset there. I just=
hope that
we put that in the back pocket for now and recognize that, in our changing
demographic and without people retiring to warmer climates now — they=
are
choosing to stay in the Yukon, which is amazing — we need to think ab=
out
that. We need to think about how we’re going to adjust our housing
because there are not a lot of places for seniors to live right now that me=
et
mobility challenges, that meet safety requiremen=
ts for
that aging population and that are private market. Until the Vimy place gets built, I think we’re just going=
to
see more and more people with similar situations. I will just ask the minis=
ter
to keep that in his back pocket. I thin=
k it was
in the last Sitting when the Housing Corporation=
made
an announcement of their four new lending programs and of using up the last=
of
the northern housing trust money. One of the things that was
talked about was the rental quality enhancement grants. Just to recap on th=
at,
that is grant money, so that is money that does not need to be paid back and
can be accessed by a landlord to improve their rental properties. =
p>
I have=
a
question. It says that there is going to be a total of $800,000 made availa=
ble
over two years. My question is: How many separate landlords have applied? T=
here
are different intake dates, so how many separate landlords have applied? How
many have received the grant money? Are any of those overlapping? Do they h=
ave
more than one unit or one project that they are working on with that grant
money? Hon. Mr. Hassard: If I could go back to the previous question in the previous
discussion for a minute, part of those programs that we announced this summ=
er
are also for doing upgrades for accessibility to rental units. That was par=
tly,
hopefully, to resolve some of the issues that the member has just mentioned=
as
well. In ter=
ms of the
rental quality enhancement grants, I don’t have all of the information
that the member opposite has asked for, but I can tell the member that 29
applications have been approved for a total of $415,000, which is actually
$15,000 over what we had set aside for this year. We have 24 applicants for
$317,000 and are currently on the wait-list. We have another 10 applicants =
for
$100,000, and they have been told that they are on file. It has definitely =
been
well-used. Ms. White: In
rolling out that program, what was the reasoning behind making it a grant
— money that didn’t have to be paid back — or making it
low-interest loans like the home improvement loan? Hon. Mr. Hassard: It was a two-part thing, I guess. Partially it was a bo=
ost
for small business for the smaller contractors — the type of people w=
ho
tend to do the upgrades on people’s houses rather than bidding on F.H.
Collins Secondary School or the like. The other reason was for safety. We w=
anted
to try to ensure that the units out there on the rental market were safe and
would meet the building standards under the new Residential Landlord and Tenant Act agreements. It was to help =
the
economy and make places safer. Ms. White: I didn’t realize that a grant would be more value=
d in
the building community than the home improvement loan that I accessed. I wo=
uld
have thought that money coming through for improvements would be valued equ=
ally
by people who would be doing the work. When t=
he Housing
Corporation received the applications, were the
applications solely for health and safety purposes or were they cosmetic
upgrades? Was there a strict guideline of what could be improved with that
money or was it open to the landlord? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I don’t actually have the guidelines with me, but the
applications were based on health and safety concerns — certainly not=
for
upgraded countertops or any of the flashy things that we like. Ms. White: Going
through the actual application form online, it doesn’t actually stipu=
late
— I mean, they can list what they’re going to improve, but ther=
e is
nothing that says that these are not things that would qualify for the mone=
y.
Was there an overseeing process where someone within the department would l=
ook
at what had been proposed and the cost and then evaluate it based on that
merit, or was it done in a more blanket fashion? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Of course, all applications are gone through by the staff at Y=
ukon
Housing Corporation and are approved only when they have ensured that they =
meet
all the guidelines of the program. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for the answer. Under =
the new
housing programs that were listed, there were rental quality enhancement gr=
ants
as well as the accessibility enhancement grants that the minister mentioned
before. Were landlords able to access both pools of money through the
accessibility enhancement grant and the rental quality enhancement grant for
the same property? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Of course they would have that option to apply for both, becau=
se
they would be different projects, but I don’t know that we actually h=
ad
that happen. Ms. White: I
would just ask the minister to commit to getting back as to whether or not
anyone accessed both floats of money. With t=
he
accessibility enhancement grant — this is one I know quite well becau=
se
it’s also in casework — I have been helping with this paperwork=
in
getting quotes and stuff, and getting the application made. Can the minister
please tell me how many people have accessed the accessibility enhancement
grant? How many people made applications? How many were accepted and how ma=
ny
were denied? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Yes, I will commit to that first part. The second question =
212; I
can give the member most of the information. I don&=
#8217;t
know how many were denied, but I know that 12 applications were received and
approved by the Accessibility Advisory Committee , for a total of $267,500
— that was in Whitehorse — and two applications were received a=
nd
approved for rural Yukon totalling $50,000. The Accessibility Advisory
Committee just met and has gone through the next intake so I don’t ha=
ve
that information, but when it becomes available I can certainly forward that
information. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for that answer. I know=
that in
my work, we worked really hard to get the application in for the November 1
deadline and my friend is awaiting hopefully confirmation by December 15
— not exactly construction season, but I’m really hoping that it
goes through because it will make his life infinitely better. Prior =
to this
announcement, we used to have a program that was a rent supplement. On the
bottom of the website it said: “YHC also has a limited rent supplement
program in Whitehorse (approximately 40 units) where social housing clients=
may
rent private sector accommodation and YHC supplements the rent difference
between the RGI amount that the tenant pays and the market rent that the
landlord charges.” I understand that we had this program prior to the
announcement of how we were going to spend the northern trust program money=
, so
my question is: How much money did the Yukon Housing Corporation pay for the
rent supplement program prior to the announcement? Hon. Mr. Hassard: With the $250,000 increase that the member opposite was talking
about, it now brings us to just over $520,000 annually in rent supplements.=
Ms. White: I’m
really glad to hear that the number increased from the $250,000 and it
wasn’t just put at a cap because of the new program that was announce=
d. I̵=
7;m not
going to refer to families or singles, but can the minister please tell me =
how
many units that supplements within the territory — so City of Whiteho=
rse
and rural Yukon? Could I have just a ballpark number please? Hon. Mr. Hassard: All together, it’s in the neighbourhood of 50. Ms. White: Does
that mean that it’s only 10 more than was referenced prior to the
announcement this last year? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Yes, that is correct. Ms. White: Can
the minister please tell me the amount that was spent on the rental supplem=
ent
program prior to the announcement this year? Hon. Mr. Hassard: It was $270,000 before; $250,000 — so $520,000. I know t=
he
member opposite said math was never her subject so — Ms. White: It
is okay, I did the scribbles before. I was just seeing if the minister also
could do the math on the fly. I have=
questions
about when someone goes in to make the housing application. I appreciate th=
at
the rent supplement enhancement program has been increased; I think
that’s really important. Well, I have concerns about the way this pro=
gram
is publicized because I’ve written casework letters on behalf of peop=
le
who would really benefit from this program. They’re on the current Yu=
kon
Housing wait-list. We don’t know where they are on the wait-list and
until I mention it to them, they actually don’t know that the program
exists. So I was wondering if the minister could shed light into why it mig=
ht
be that some people are told about the rent supplement enhancement program =
and
others are not. Then I guess my questions are: Is it adequately funding to =
meet
the need? How long does the minister foresee this program being offered? =
span> Hon. Mr. Hassard: Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the reason it’s not ment=
ioned
to all clients is because it depends on the requirement. Some people —=
; if
the Housing Corporation doesn’t feel that it’s going to fit that
person, I guess they probably wouldn’t mention it to them because if =
it
wasn’t going to work, there’s not much point. The ot=
her reason
that it isn’t being brought to tenants’ attention currently is
because we are fully committed, so we don’t have any resources left f=
or
that program. I mean, we’re continuously evaluating programs as we go=
, so
I mean, it is a possibility that we could move money from one program to
another to make that program go a little further if it works. It appears th=
at
it’s something that is being fully utilized and could be utilized mor=
e,
so it’s definitely on the radar of the Yukon Housing Corporation to t=
ry
to determine how we could utilize it more fully. So yes, it is an option an=
d it
is being explored. Ms. White: Thank
you, Madam Chair. The mi=
nister
just mentioned “fit” of the program. I would have thought that
anyone applying through Yukon Housing Corporation for social housing —
it’s an affordability issue. They have made an application to Yukon
Housing Corporation because they can’t afford private market rents, so
would that not mean that they would be a fit for the program, which is a
supplement to help them afford market rents? There&=
#8217;s
also the aspect — at this point in time, if we’re spending now =
half
a million dollars or so a year to help people rent private market rentals, =
maybe
it’s something where the minister talked about how he thought it was
important that we give grants to landlords to help the building community.
Well, I would think if we increase the program, would that not economically
help landlords in the community? Maybe that would be incentive enough for
private builders to build rentals, knowing that Yukon Housing clients and t=
he
Yukon Housing Corporation essentially would act as the go-between to be sure
that rent was paid. Is that something that the minister has considered? Hon. Mr. Hassard: If I can just go back to the previous question for a mi=
nute
— when I talked about the requirements, I was referring to the size of
the units. As well, it’s also important — we can’t move a
program forward if the landlord is not willing to work under the requiremen=
ts
of the program. Back t=
o the
question at hand, Yukon Housing also has in place a rental housing allowance
for families, which provides support to families with core housing needs. T=
his
is $1 million over four years. That’s an addition that provides suppo=
rt
to 19 families. I thin=
k along
the lines of what the member opposite was talking about is the announcement
with the Ta’an Kwäch’än, where we are using the rent
supplement. That has given them enough incentive that they are willing to b=
uild
the 42-unit social housing that they are currently undertaking in Whistle B=
end.
So yes, I guess is the short answer to your question. Ms. White: When the minister mentioned that it is dependent upon t=
he
landlord being in agreement or not, has the department approached different
landlords and been turned down? I would think that guaranteed rent payment =
is
an attractive thing for a landlord. Are there many cases where the landlord=
is
not in agreement with participating in the program? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Apparently we only have a handful of landlords who are
willing to participate in the program as it is now. Ms. White:=
195;With
the press release that came out on November 12 about the Ta’an
Kwäch’än Council and their proposed 42-unit affordable rent=
al
housing development, can the minister tell me more about how that came about
and what the Yukon Housing Corporation’s role will be when the buildi=
ng
is completed? Hon. Mr. Hassard: The
Ta’an Kwäch’än, or the Da Daghay=
Development Corporation, approached Yukon Housing Corporation saying that t=
hey
would like to build this 42-unit complex, and would Yukon Housing Corporati=
on
commit to a certain number of rent supplements to be housed in the new
building. We agreed, and they determined that would be enough to make the
project viable. That was entirely their prerogative and I guess they will b=
uild
it. Ms. White: How many units did the Yukon government commit to, and =
will
these units be considered Yukon Housing units, or will they only be
supplemented if an application is made? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Thirty units — and no, it is not a Yukon Housing buildin=
g. Ms. White: Can
the minister please help me understand this? In the press release, the talk=
is
that they’re building a 42-unit affordable rental housing development,
which is great. The minister just said that Yukon Housing had committed to
offering a rent supplement program for 30 of those units. Can the minister =
just
elaborate how he sees this relationship working? Out of the 42 units, 30 wi=
ll
be supplemented by Yukon Housing. Will that be with an application, or with=
out
an application? Will the department be paying it directly to the Ta’a=
n Kwäch’än government? Can he just expla=
in how
that is going to work? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Yes, people will still make their application to Yukon Housing.
Yukon Housing will not own the building, but Yukon Housing will make the re=
nt
supplement payment directly to the owner of the building. Ms. White:=
195;I
don’t mean to go over the same ground, but will someone within one of
those 30 units have to make the application to the Yukon Housing Corporatio=
n to
access the rent supplement program, or is that how the plan is to keep the
rents lower, more affordable? Hon. Mr. Hassard: It will work just the same as any other landlord/tenant/Yukon
Housing relationship. The tenant will apply through Yukon Housing and be
screened just like any other tenant through Yukon Housing Corporation, and =
the
landlord will be just like any other landlord in the Yukon who is dealing w=
ith
Yukon Housing Corporation. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for that. Is the=
re
opportunity for other First Nation governments to make the same pitch toward
the Yukon Housing Corporation or, for example, a private developer in the C=
ity
of Whitehorse? If they decide that they are willing to take the risk of
building affordable rental housing, is the Yukon Housing Corporation open to
having that conversation? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Absolutely. Yukon Housing is open to talk to anyone — pr=
ivate,
First Nation, whatever and wherever, not just in Whitehorse. I mean this is
something that could be done in the communities. Any time that the building=
is
owned by someone other than government, it is a
building that we don’t have to pay to try to maintain. It’s a
building that we don’t have to hire more maintenance people to look
after. So we encourage the private sector to build these buildings and
we’re more than happy to make these kinds of agreements or arrangemen=
ts
to work with them. Ms. White: I
hope there is a flood of conversations that come your way about affordable
rental housing. WeR=
17;ve
talked a lot in the Legislative Assembly — 2012 is probably when I
started talking about it — about the concerns over the air at Closeleigh Manor. Can th=
e minister
please give me an update as to where we are in that process? Were there rep=
airs
done this year or completed this year? What were they? Have there been
air-quality tests? What have they found? I will=
just give
him an opportunity to elaborate on the Closeleigh
Manor air issue. Hon. Mr. Hassard: Over the past two years, there have been considerable upgrades=
made
to Closeleigh Manor’s ventilation system.=
These
included moving the supply air and extending the chimney. They have had
independent professional air-quality tests conducted in Closeleigh
Manor. Yukon Housing Corporation technical staff tested various suites for =
air
ultrafine particulate readings and carbon monoxide levels, tested various
suites’ ventilation air supply UP and CO levels, tested common areas =
for
carbon monoxide as well as UP levels — and those reports are all
available. They reset the air-handling unit number 1 motor electrical supply
frequency. They adjusted the boiler room appliance combustion air ducting,
cleaned all exterior door unit heater filters, changed all ventilation air
filters, replaced unserviceable air handler drive belts, replaced various
heating zone valves, thermostats, isolation valves and bleeders, and cleaned
related heating fluid or glycol leaks. They inspected and sealed leakage fo=
und
in AHUs cabinets and air ducting, tested tenants’ cooking ranges for
particulate production, replaced individual tenant cooking ranges where
requested, provided tenants with three separate in-house project information
and project progress sessions, and addressed each of the mechanical
consultants’ ventilation repair recommendations, and staff have met d=
oor
to door on annual inspections this year, in 2015, to seek information from
tenants about any concerns. Ms. White: The
minister made mention that the reports are all available. Could he tell me
where, or could he commit to getting me copies of those reports? Will t=
here be
ongoing air testing happening in the building on a more regular basis ̵=
2;
once a month, once every couple months — and then moving the spots
around? Hon. Mr. Hassard: There are not any ongoing air-quality tests currently, and, ye=
s, I
will commit to getting those reports to the member. Ms. White: In
previous Sittings when we’ve talked about this issue and have gone ov=
er
reports from the federal government and from other jurisdictions where they
have encountered air quality issues, one of the things that was often talked
about was the importance of independent assessments — so a group that=
was
removed from the body who either owned the property or had the problems. Is the=
re any
thought about doing any more independent assessments on the air quality of =
Closeleigh Manor? Hon. Mr. Hassard: We hired an environmental consultant. There was a third party
consultant hired to perform further indoor air-quality testing. Testing
included all aspects recommended by Health Canada for indoor air quality. A=
ll
test results were within or below Health Canada guidelines, and that was
completed in March of this year. There were no more tests conducted —=
or
planned at this time. Ms. White: I
can’t remember if it was in the previous Sitting or the Sitting before
that, but we talked about the chimney liner. I acknowledge that the governm=
ent
has extended the chimney — now it goes past the peak, which is an
important thing that I learned from Rod Corea d=
uring
the inquest a number of years ago — but what I didn’t get an an=
swer
to last time was about the age of the chimney. Is the=
existing
liner — the entire chimney — from the original construction of =
Closeleigh Manor or has it since been replaced? If it=
has,
what year was it replaced in? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I’m not positive on that one. I do, however, know that t=
he
chimney liner was inspected by both a certified inspector and Yukon Housing
Corporation’s on-staff red seal certified oil burner mechanic, and bo=
th
have deemed the chimney safe to operate. Ms. White: Can
the minister tell me what year that was completed? Hon. Mr. Hassard: To the best of my knowledge, it was sometime this year —=
I
believe in March, but I’m not positive about that. Ms. White: I
ask the minister to get back with that information — thank you. WeR=
17;ve
asked questions before about underground oil tanks in the territory,
highlighting that there are issues, and it has been a big budget item to
replace the underground oil tanks. Can the minister tell me if the oil tank=
at Closeleigh Manor is an underground tank and, if so, w=
hen it
was last tested for leaks? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Yes, it is an underground tank, and I can’t tell the mem=
ber
when it was last tested, but I can find out. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for that answer. Can he tell me what year the tank was
installed? Hon. Mr. Hassard: That is one more that I’ll have to get back to the member
opposite on. Ms. White: I
thank the minister and his officials. I know that this is occasionally
uncomfortable territory and I know that sometimes the minister won’t =
have
the answers in front of him, but I also know that I can count on the minist=
er
to get back to me. I would like know the age of the tank, when it was last
tested for leaks and if it’s slated for replacement at any point? That
would be a great start. We hav=
e talked
before about the home improvement loan. I’ve said before that my 1958
house is substantially more energy efficient than it was prior to me access=
ing
that home improvement amount. I have mentioned before that the $35,000 got =
me
insulation, but it hasn’t touched the insulation in my attic. It hasn=
’t
touched my windows, my doors or my furnace replacement. Right now, the home
improvement loan sits at $35,000. I was wondering if the Yukon Housing
Corporation has any intent to make that amount larger so that people like m=
e,
instead of being on the 13-year energy retrofit program, could be on the
25-year payoff program, and be able to access the money in one go at the
beginning as opposed to having to prioritize — or in my case, triage
— what is the worst thing that needs to be repaired and then eventual=
ly
getting to the point where it is all repaired. Could the minister talk about
that please? Hon. Mr. Hassard: That program is under development and it is on track for
launch in April of 2016. Ms. White: Can
the minister tell me any more about what we have to look forward to in Apri=
l of
2016, or is that a secret until the press release? Hon. Mr. Hassard: It’s currently still being reviewed and then
it’ll have to come forward to the board for any changes or
recommendations. Once that is all completed, then we will all find out more=
. Ms. White: I’ll
let the minister know that my birthday is the beginning of April, and I look
forward to a new furnace in the future that doesn’t involve oil. I wi=
ll
just put that out there. Just t=
o go back
to the Ta’an Kwäch’än and Yukon government announceme=
nt,
was consideration given to the location that the Ta’an
Kwäch’än development is going to be in Whistle Bend as oppo=
sed
to, for example, Whitehorse Centre, considering that in the official commun=
ity
plan, the Yukon government owns a piece of property on Fifth and Rogers tha=
t is
supposed to be for mixed-use residential, including affordable rental prope=
rty?
Was there a reason why the focus was on the Whistle Bend property as oppose=
d to
Fifth and Rogers? What was the zoning for the Whistle Bend property prior to
the announcement? I will leave it at that to start. Introduction
of Visitors Ms. Hanson: Madam Chair, I would just like to take this opportunity=
to
welcome to the Legislative Assembly a former friend of the Assembly —
member of the Legislative Assembly; minister in this Legislative Assembly f=
rom
Klondike and currently Carcross, Eleanor Millard. Applause Hon. Mr. Hassard: Currently the Fifth and Rogers — there is a group in pla=
ce
that is doing the planning there. The Ta’an Kw&au=
ml;ch’än
project was brought forward by the Ta’an, so we didn’t tell them
where they had to build. I’ll continue, if that’s okay. It was =
not
Yukon Housing Corporation’s project; it’s was the Ta’an’s project. Ms. White: What
was the zoning for the Whistle Bend property prior to that switch?=
p>
Hon. Mr. Hassard: Thank you, Madam Chair. I knew there was another part of the
question and it escaped me. To the best of my knowledge, it was
multi-residential. Ms. White: To
the best of my knowledge, it was single-family units. My question is: What =
is
the financial implication for the City of Whitehorse when it goes from being
multiple units that are paying city taxes to one unit that is paying city
taxes? Does the minister have any idea what the financial implication might=
be
for the City of Whitehorse? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I don’t. That would be a question you would have to talk=
to
the city about. Ms. White: Well,
I already have talked to the city and they thought I should ask the minister
about it. I’ll leave it at that for now. Just b=
efore I go
on, I would like to point out that Eleanor Millard is actually the reason w=
hy
there’s a Women’s Directorate. I’ve mentioned that in a
tribute before, so that is pretty exciting that she’s here, although
we’re not talking about the Women’s Directorate. I have=
other
questions. Can the minister tell me how many people have accessed the down
payment assistance program in this calendar year and to what amount?=
Hon. Mr. Hassard: I don’t know how many there were this year, but I know t=
hat
currently there have been 50 down payment assistance plans with approximate=
ly
$715,000 in loans, but if the member opposite so wishes, we can get the num=
bers
for this year. Ms. White: I
would appreciate that number. It has only been a couple years that it has b=
een
available. On the website, there is a section called: “Carbon monoxide
awareness: seriously simple.” I would challenge that, not being an
oil-fired mechanic. It’s not that easy to tell if my furnace is runni=
ng
properly or not. Indoor=
air
quality is not just an issue for Yukon Housing Corporation buildings, but f=
or
private homes as well. Are there definite standards for air quality? Is Yuk=
on
equipped to properly test and monitor indoor air quality if I was to ask, f=
or
example, someone to come to my house? I’ll start with that. Hon. Mr. Hassard: Of course Yukon Housing Corporation is doing the awareness pro=
gram.
We have invested $285,000 in a three-year public education campaign. There =
is someone
in the Yukon who does the testing, but I don’t know it off the top of=
my
head. Ms. White: This
is a completely different train of thought, but last time we talked about t=
he
number of people on the housing wait-list and I was wondering if there is a=
nyone
who is currently waiting for Yukon government staff housing. Is there a
wait-list for staff housing? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I could tell the member that there are 13, but then she is goi=
ng to
ask me where they are, so I’m going to try to go through it: three in
Carcross; five in Dawson City; three in Haines Junction; one in Pelly Cross=
ing;
and one in Watson Lake, for a total of 13. Ms. White: Just
to be clear, that’s staff waiting on a wait-list for staff housing?
Perfect, I just got the thumbs up across the way. I have=
a
question, and I often tell people when they call and they’re frustrat=
ed
because they’re on the wait-list and — to be clear, people
don’t come to the office asking for help with housing when they’=
;re
not desperate, so I typically see people when they’re desperate.
They’ve tried to go through the process on their own. They’ve h=
it
roadblocks. They’re worried and they’re facing housing insecuri=
ty.
Sometimes I hear stories that I always say we have to take with a grain of
salt, we can’t know how many units are within a building and all the =
rest
of it. If som=
eone was
picked up and detained in corrections and they were a Yukon Housing client,=
how
long is their unit held for them while they are incarcerated? Is there a
timeline or a process that happens if that’s the case? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I guess it would depend entirely on an individual basis becaus=
e if
someone was incarcerated for 14 days, but continued to pay their rent,
obviously Yukon Housing is not going to evict them, but I guess if they were
going to be incarcerated for 14 years, then obviously we would look at it
differently. Ms. White: It
was just mentioned by my colleague that there is a two-year limit at WCC, b=
ut I
would hope that something would happen prior to that time. WeR=
17;ve
talked often about empty units and about the time that it goes from being e=
mpty
to being occupied, and to be perfectly honest, sometimes the answer of
“it takes as long as it takes” is a harder one, knowing that th=
ere
are people on wait-lists. Is the=
re an
average time that a Yukon Housing Corporation unit is empty between one ten=
ant
moving out and the next one moving in? So while waiting for repairs, the
painting of walls or minor upgrades, is there an average time that it remai=
ns
empty? Hon. Mr. Hassard: No, we don’t have an average time. Obviously we try to h=
ave
the units turned over as quickly as we can. As you can well imagine, there =
are
sometimes some very strange circumstances. Sometimes people have passed away
and we’re unable to find next of kin, so there are belongings that you
can’t necessarily move or don’t want to move or don’t have
anywhere to move them to. Tradit=
ionally,
as fast as we can have the units turned over, that’s our preferred
timeline. Obviously we want people in the units. It doesn’t make any
sense for anyone to have units sitting unoccupied. Ms. White: Can
the minister please tell me how many units are currently vacant or empty,
waiting for repairs in both Whitehorse and rural Yukon? Hon. Mr. Hassard: As of September 30 of this year, we had 16 units vacant —=
; just
in general turnover, people moving in and out — and 26 throughout the
Yukon that were vacant for repair. There were 17 in Whitehorse, six in Wats=
on
Lake, one in Ross River, two in Mayo — and that’s it. Ms. White: Out
of the 17 that were vacant in Whitehorse for repair, can the minister pleas=
e tell
me if they were single-person dwellings, if they were seniors units or if t=
hey
were family units? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I don’t have that level of detail with me at this time. I
could commit to getting back to the member, but that has all changed since =
September
30 anyway, so I don’t know if it’s really worthwhile, but
that’s up to the member. Ms. White: If I
could have current numbers for, let’s say, November of this year at t=
he
end of the month, that would be great. I have=
a
question about the points system and how that works within the application
process. Can the minister please tell me the highest number of points that a
person can have in an application and how those points are awarded?<=
/p>
Hon. Mr. Hassard: Unfortunately we don’t have the points system stuff with=
us
here today, so I can’t give the member that today, but I can commit to
getting that to her. Ms. White: The
reason I ask about the points system is that, when someone is in the
application process and they are told, for example, that they have 32 point=
s, I
have no idea where that is on the list. They have no idea where that is on =
the
list, and I understand that the list constantly changes. I unde=
rstand
that, but having the criteria for how the points are awarded and what the
highest level of points is next to the lowest number of points would be rea=
lly
helpful for probably every elected person who is helping people understand =
the
process. I than=
k the
minister and the officials very much for the debate today. I will hand it o=
ver
to the Member for Klondike. Mr. Silver: Thank you to the department officials for their time he=
re
today and, of course, to the minister for answering the questions. I am goi=
ng
to be all over the map, as my colleague from Takhini-K=
opper
King has asked a lot of my questions. I might be going back to a few that t=
he
minister has talked about, but I am still not sure of certain answers. I do w=
ant to
start with the housing action plan. This is the first supplementary budget =
to
be introduced since the release of the Yukon Housing action plan in June 20=
15.
I want to thank the department for its hard work on this. I have=
a couple
of questions. In the supplementary budget, the housing action plan is not
referenced. Can the minister explain how the housing action plan will be fu=
nded
and give us an estimate of the total cost of implementation of that action
plan? We will start there. Hon. Mr. Hassard: It’s $480,000
from the northern housing trust fund — $240,000 for this current year=
and
$240,000 for the next fiscal year. Mr. Silver: Thank
you for those numbers. What specifically will the money be
spent on? Can the minister break down that a little bit further for us? Hon. Mr. Hassard: We currently have an implementation committee, and they=
will
be looking at short and medium goals and determining how the money will be
allocated to covering those goals. Mr. Silver: I
guess this is a little bit of a work in progress. This c=
omes from
the Association of Yukon Communities meeting — the AGM. The minister =
did
announce the funds for matching of municipal incentives to promote more
affordable and attainable housing. From there, can we find more information
about that spending? There were concerns at that time from some of the
municipal communities that weren’t Whitehorse and that didn’t
necessarily have systems in place. Can the minister talk a little bit about
uptake? How has that been? How many projects have been funded? Have any
projects been approved outside of Whitehorse, or are we still waiting for t=
his
information to come rolling in? Hon. Mr. Hassard: There have been 10 applications received. Four have been
declined as they have not received municipal approval. That is in Whitehors=
e. One is=
on hold
in Dawson City pending further documentation. I know that Carmacks now has
their program in place, and I believe that Teslin should shortly have their=
s in
place. I know they were looking at the Carmacks and Dawson model as well.=
span> Mr. Silver: When
the minister says they were looking at the Carmacks and Dawson model, are t=
hese
models based on what Whitehorse has already set up? Is there some new motion
forward that doesn’t necessarily mirror Whitehorse? Could the ministe=
r explain
a little bit about that please, seeing as how that was one of the bigger
concerns? I think a lot of the municipalities were extremely excited to see
this money. I know that, at that time, they were looking forward to more
dialogue as far as how the ministry can help them to help themselves —
that type of thing. If the minister can kind of draw down on some progress =
there,
that would be great. Hon. Mr. Hassard: Every municipality has the option to run the program however t=
hey
see fit — if they want to give a certain amount or if they want to do=
it
strictly in lieu of taxes or through infrastructure. I haven’t really
looked at Dawson or Carmacks as to what they’re doing compared to
Whitehorse, but every municipality had the option to do it — however =
best
suited their community. Mr. Silver: We’ll
move on then to the Alexander Street residence. I’m not sure if this =
was
answered yet today, so my apologies if it has been. Is the project now comp=
lete
and what was the final cost? Hon. Mr. Hassard: 207 Alexander Street is complete, with the exception of one si=
dewalk
that still needs to be done — obviously when the weather is a little =
better.
The final price tag on that was $8,438,836.04. Mr. Silver: Down
to the penny, I like that — it’s good. Thank =
you to the
minister for his response. I’ll move on to the V=
imy
Heritage Housing project. The Vimy Heritage Hou=
sing
Society announced their proposal back in 2013. They were looking to build an
independent living facility for seniors and have requested seed money and l=
and
from the government for this project. At their AGM, the discussion was how
there’s not just one group of seniors — that there are all
different types of seniors from different socio-economic backgrounds —
and there are seniors who, from this particular society, feel they can affo=
rd
this type of housing and this type of project to keep them in their homes a=
lot
longer, I guess. I was =
wondering
if the minister can provide an update on this project and where it stands.
Again from the AGM, there were public conversations about how the society w=
as
working with the government, both on a land allocation — and also if
there was going to be any help in seed money. Has a location been found and=
is
there any commitment to funding for this organization? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I can give the member opposite an update on that. It partially=
falls
under the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources portfolio, but I do know =
that
the government and the City of Whitehorse are considering development optio=
ns
for a large undeveloped parcel of approximately seven and a half acres. The=
re
was an RFP that I believe closed last week for the planning process. I
don’t believe anything has been awarded and of course Vimy
is part of the group that sits on that planning committee for that area. Mr. Silver: From
that answer, I’m assuming that a specific location hasn’t been
picked. I’ll let the minister answer that again. I guess we will brin=
g it
up as well at EMR and see if there is any more response. I̵=
7;ll tag
that on to another question about Korbo and the
remediation up in Dawson — the Korbo
Apartments. This is an issue that I bring up whenever the Housing Corporati=
on
is here. Can the minister please provide us an update on the Korbo Apartments remediation? In the=
spring,
when I asked the minister, he said — and I quote: “the remediat=
ion
work will be ongoing until this fall, pending availability of space for
additional contaminated soil in the local land treatment facility.” T=
he
question being begged is: Was the available space found for the contaminate=
d soil
and what is left to do with the remediation of this project? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Yes, space was found for the remaining contaminated soi=
l.
We’re just waiting now for the okay on the final reclamation, ensuring
that all of the contaminants are gone. So fingers crossed, by spring that
property will be available for use. Mr. Silver: Good
to hear. I̵=
7;m going
to move on to — I know there were a couple questions from the Member =
for
Takhini-Kopper King on the Ta’an partners=
hip
over the affordable housing units. The minister had stated earlier in the H=
ouse
that rent supplements were the contribution on the territorial government s=
ide.
Is this the only financial contribution to the project from the territorial
government? Hon. Mr. Hassard: Currently yes. The only thing that would change that is if the=
y fit
under the municipal matching grant; then they obviously would be eligible
through that program as well. Mr. Silver: Yes,
understandable. But there is not going to be a partnership of funding for t=
he
actual project is what I’m hearing from the minister. Also — and
I’m not sure if this was answered earlier or not so, again, forgive m=
e if
it was — there was a land swap as part of this arrangement. What were=
the
values of the land that changed hands? Were there appraisals done of those
lands in that exchange? Hon. Mr. Hassard: The member is forgiven, but I’m going to defer that ques=
tion
to debate in Energy, Mines and Resources. Mr. Silver: I
will bring it up with Energy, Mines and Resources. I am g=
oing to
move on to selling a portfolio to a bank. A number of years ago, the Govern=
ment
of Yukon looked into selling the Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage portfol=
io
to a commercial bank. Has this been reconsidered in any recent years? Has t=
his
been an issue in the department or is this no longer the direction?<=
/p>
Hon. Mr. Hassard: No, that is not currently the direction, and I don’t bel=
ieve
that has been discussed in a few years, to the best of my knowledge —
certainly not with me. Mr. Silver: Just
a couple more questions here. The op=
position
has already brought up the down payment assistance program, and I believe t=
he
question was about how many applicants. We are wondering if there have been=
any
defaults under this program. I think I’ll leave that as my final ques=
tion
for the day. I thank the minister and his departmental officials for answer=
ing
our questions today. Hon. Mr. Hassard: It’s a great way to finish because I can say zero=
. Chair: Does =
any
other person wish to speak in general debate? Ms. White: I
just had a couple questions to follow up with. The minister mentioned that =
the
corner of Fifth and Rogers was being looked at by other groups. Can the
minister elaborate on that statement please? Hon. Mr. Hassard: That’s probably best answered by the Minister of Energy,=
Mines
and Resources. It appears that he would be willing to answer that question =
at a
later date. Ms. White: It
was just to follow up on something that the minister had said and I had wri=
tten
down. When s=
omeone
makes an application for the Yukon Housing Corporation and they’re
denied, there is an appeal process. Can the minister please explain
what’s involved in that process and how someone goes about starting a=
nd
then going through that process? Hon. Mr. Hassard: If it’s in regard to tenancy, then the first level would=
be
with the director of housing operations and then, if it went to the second
level, it would be to the board’s appeal committee. If it’s in
regard to a program or policy, it would go directly to the board’s ap=
peal
committee. Ms. White: If
someone was denied an application to Yukon Housing Corporation, it would go=
to
the board. How does someone appeal their denial or their being turned down =
for
social housing? Hon. Mr. Hassard: I think the member opposite is talking about the senior one? O=
kay,
so that would be a policy, so they could just call the office and then they
would direct them to the board’s appeal committee. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for that, but what is the process to do the appeal? They=
get
directed toward this other entity, but how does a senior go about appealing=
a
decision? Hon. Mr. Hassard: After they call the office, the office would set up the meetin=
g with
the board. They would then meet with the board appeal committee, give their
presentation or their side of the story, or however they want to put it. Th=
ey
also have the right or option to have someone with them, so that if there a=
re
any issues, they can have someone with them at the time. Ms. White: I
thank the minister for the answer. In the
supplementary budget, we have $1.175 million going toward the Salvation Army
under “Joint Ventures under Affordable Housing.” Can the minist=
er
elaborate on that please? Hon. Mr. Hassard: It’s a joint venture under the affordable housing
— a revote — and approved funding will be transferred to the
Department of Health and Social Services for the Salvation Army redevelopme=
nt
project. Chair: Does =
any
other person wish to speak in general debate? We are=
then
going to go to line-by-line debate. Ms. White: Pursuant
to Standing Order 14.3, I request the unanimous consent of Committee of the
Whole to deem all lines in Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporation, cleared or
carried, as required. Unanimous
consent re deeming all lines in Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporation, cleared=
or
carried Chair:̳=
5;Ms. White has, pursuant to Standing Order 14.3, requested the unanimous conse=
nt of
Committee of the Whole to deem all lines in Vote 18, Yukon Housing Corporat=
ion,
cleared or carried, as required. Is the=
re
unanimous consent? All Hon. Members: Agreed. Chair: Unani=
mous
consent has been granted. On Opera=
tion and
Maintenance Expenditures Total Op=
eration
and Maintenance Expenditures in the amount of $250,000 agreed to On Capit=
al
Expenditures Total Ca=
pital
Expenditures in the amount of $5,851,000 agreed to Total
Expenditures in the amount of $6,101,000 agreed to Yukon Ho=
using
Corporation agreed to Chair: We ar=
e going
to be going on to Vote 53, but prior to that, do members wish to take a bri=
ef
recess? All Hon. Members: Agreed. Chair: Commi=
ttee of
the Whole will recess for 15 minutes. Recess Chair: Commi=
ttee of
the Whole will now come to order. The matter before the Committee is Vote 5=
3,
Department of Energy, Mines and Resources. Department of Energy, Mines and Resources Hon. Mr. Kent: Before
I begin with introductory remarks, I would like to welcome two officials to=
the
Chamber here today: Shirley Abercrombie and Carolyn Re=
lf,
both assistant deputy ministers in the Department of Energy, Mines and
Resources. I woul=
d also
like to just briefly take the time to thank Mr. George Ross, who has
returned as of yesterday, I believe, to Ontario. He spent a year with us as=
the
deputy minister and did a tremendous job. I thank him for all of his
contributions to Energy, Mines and Resources during that time and welcome
Stephen Mills to the position of deputy minister. I know that Stephen will =
do a
great job as well. I’ve worked with Stephen in the past on the YESA B=
oard
and he’s a great asset for Energy, Mines and Resources. We’re e=
xcited
to have him and look forward to carrying on the good work of the department
going forward. Madam =
Chair,
it’s my pleasure to introduce the 2015-16 supplementary estimates for=
the
Department of Energy, Mines and Resources. This supplementary budget reflec=
ts
adjustments made to the 2015-16 budget as EMR
continues its mandate to responsibly manage and regulate the development of
Yukon’s natural resources. For th=
is
supplementary budget, EMR requests an overall increase of $3.1 million for
operation and maintenance expenditures and an overall decrease of $2.6 mill=
ion
for capital expenditures. For O&=
amp;M,
there is an increase of $3.1 million to the department’s $85.3-million
operation and maintenance budget, which represents an increase of 3.6 perce=
nt.
Operation and maintenance expenditures for the Sustainable Resources divisi=
on
have increased slightly by $323,000 from their original $10-million budget,
mainly due to increases in the Land Planning, Forest Management and Agricul=
ture
branches. Specif=
ically
this breaks down as the following: $126,000 increase for Land Planning to
support ongoing work on the Fox Lake area plan; $106,000 increase for the
Forest Management branch for roadwork in the Lewes-Marsh area; a $117,000
increase in the Agriculture branch for Growing Forward, which includes a
$70,000 recovery from the Government of Canada; and, finally, a minor decre=
ase
of $26,000 for the Agriculture branch because funds were transferred into
Corporate Services’ capital budget to cover equipment purchases. The op=
eration
and maintenance budget estimate for the Energy, Corporate Policy and
Communications division has increased by $171,000 from the original $5.5
million due to increases under the division’s Energy branch. The $106=
,000
increase in the Energy branch budget is a request to carry forward funds fr=
om
2014-15 for the very successful residential energy incentives program.
Announced in January 2015, the residential energy incentives program offers
incentives to improve air tightness and insulation levels of existing homes=
, to
achieve an EnerGuide rating of 85 or better in =
new
homes, and to install renewable energy systems for generating electricity.<=
/span> As per=
the
agreement signed on August 24, 2015, and in collaboration with the Kluane F=
irst
Nation to develop clean energy projects, $50,000 is required as a first pay=
ment
to support Kluane First Nation in their wind-diesel project. In support of
energy efficiency initiatives, an additional $15,000 in funds will go toward
the Energy Solution Centre’s refrigerator retirement program.<=
/p>
Operat=
ion and
maintenance expenditures for the Oil, Gas and Mineral Resources division are
increased by $3.3 million, from the original $59 million, primarily due to
increased funding under the Assessment and Abandoned Mines and Mineral Reso=
urces
branches. The Assessment and Abandoned Mines branch will see an increase of
just over $3 million due to care and maintenance work required for the Ketza mine site, $1.7 million for work carried forwar=
d from
2014-15, $710,000 in maintenance transferred from the Compliance Monitoring=
and
Inspections branch, and $797,000 of security seized for mine site work. The Mi=
neral
Resources branch received a $240,000 revote for the mine licensing improvem=
ent
initiative as well. This important work will ensure Yukon’s mineral
resources continue to be developed in a way that benefits all Yukoners. We =
are
improving our mining regulatory system to reduce overlaps and increase clar=
ity.
For the Compliance Monitoring and Inspections branch, a reduction of $688,0=
00
is being sought. A $710,000 reduction in funds is to support Ketza mine work, which has been transferred to Assess=
ment
and Abandoned Mines — I previously mentioned that — and a $22,0=
00
increase for the Yukon Placer Secretariat. This i=
s a revote
of funds from the Government of Canada to support the watershed atlas. The
watershed atlas is an online tool that provides information available on a
geographic information system for fish and fish habitat, geology and mining,
hydrology resources, mining and land use activities, mineral claims, First
Nation traditional territories and settlement land, and the results of
environmental monitoring. It is also a tool that placer miners can use when
preparing project proposals and permit applications. That i=
s all to
report, Madam Chair, on the operation and maintenance budget. For EM=
R's
capital budget, there is a total reduction of almost $2.6 million in capital
expenditures to the $7.4 million estimate for the 2015-16 mains budget,
primarily due to an almost $2.8-million reduction from the Sustainable
Resources division, offset by an $181,000 increase in Corporate Services.=
span> Starti=
ng with
Corporate Services, capital expenditure estimates are increased by $181,000=
and
consist of a $26,000 transfer from Agriculture to cover the purchase of
descaling and dehairing machinery for the mobile
abattoir, and $155,000 for a revote of funds allocated to the Dome Road
project. For th=
is
project, the Yukon government, the City of Dawson and owners of the Slinky =
mine
negotiated a multi-party agreement. This agreement will enable development =
of
country residential lots in the area, provide for a timely end to placer mi=
ning
near the road and residences and result in a safer road for all users. The
agreement specifies that the mining must be completed by December 31, 2017.=
The
claims in the area will then be relinquished and the land made available for
future residential development. For the
Sustainable Resources division, a $2.8-million reduction in its capital
allotment is required for the following: a $35,000 increase in the Forest
Management branch, which reflects a revote for building logging roads in the
Bonanza Creek area; a decrease under the Agriculture branch by $500,000 to
facilitate funds being moved into the next fiscal year for agriculture land
development — these funds will support projects in the Ibex and Sunny=
dale
areas, which involve the surveying of lots and the construction and upgradi=
ng
of access roads; and, finally, a $2.35-million reduction in the Land Manage=
ment
branch’s rural land development unit’s budget to reflect its
revised annual workplan. The ru=
ral land
development unit develops, plans, designs, constructs and delivers Yukon
government land development projects throughout the territory. Working clos=
ely
with communities, First Nations, other government branches and private sect=
or
developers, the rural land development unit facilitates land development
projects for all rural Yukon, including unincorporated communities and rural
municipalities. This c=
oncludes
the capital budget items and my comments overall for the 2015-16 Supplementary Estimates No. 1 for =
the
Department of Energy, Mines and Resources. I now look forward to questions =
from
the members opposite. Mr. Tredger: I
too welcome the officials to the Legislature and I look forward to hearing =
some
answers and working with them as this goes forward. I would like to
congratulate the minister and all of the civil servants who work in Energy,
Mines and Resources. It is a very, very important part of our economy and of
our territory. I know it generates a lot of interest and Yukoners have been
getting increasingly involved and increasingly interested in how we are
achieving our economy and how we are working on our land to balance develop=
ment
with the resources that we have, the energy that we need and the various
attributes of the Yukon that we all have come to enjoy. I have=
a number
of questions and I will go immediately to them, but I did want to refer to a
previous question in housing, when my colleague for Takhini-Kopper
King asked about Fifth and Rogers and it was suggested that we ask the Ener=
gy,
Mines and Resources minister. Can th=
e minister
please tell us what is happening to the property at Fifth and Rogers? Hon. Mr. Kent:=
span> We are excited about the progress at Fifth and Rogers a=
nd
what is happening on that site. Of course, that is a site located in the Ci=
ty
of Whitehorse and, together with the municipality, we are considering
development options for a large, undeveloped parcel — about 7.5 acres=
at
Fifth Avenue and Rogers Street. This development is consistent with City of
Whitehorse zoning and the previously endorsed south downtown plan, which
received full public input. The pa=
rties have
worked together to finalize criteria for a joint planning process that will
help to guide future development. The Fifth and Rogers steering committee,
which is a planning partnership between EMR, Yukon Housing Corporation and =
the
City of Whitehorse, has prepared an RFP. As mentioned by the Minister of Yu=
kon
Housing Corporation, the tender closed for that — I believe it was la=
st
week or, potentially, the week before. To the best of my knowledge, they are
still evaluating the number of proposals so there hasn’t been an award
yet. The purpose of the RFP is to produce a master plan and a planning brief
for that parcel. It has the potential to provide a good mix of affordable
housing and commercial development opportunities close to the Whitehorse
downtown core. In add=
ition to
Yukon government and City of Whitehorse members, the committee also includes
members from the Yukon Contractors Association, the Vi=
my
Heritage Housing Society — as mentioned in a previous response —
and the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce. This initiative is consistent with =
the
goals of the housing action plan, which envisions a sufficient supply of a
diverse range of housing options to meet the needs of Yukoners. We certainly
recognize the high demand for land over the last decade, largely in part to
some of the economic success that we have seen here in the territory and the
increased population. The demand for multi-family residential and commercial
lots has been high within the City of Whitehorse and that site at Fifth and
Rogers is a large, undeveloped and valuable parcel of urban land located at=
the
south end of downtown Whitehorse. There =
is one
construction project that is underway close to that site, and that is the n=
ew
St. Elias adult residence. The detailed development plans for the St. Elias
facility have been approved by the City of Whitehorse. Construction has
commenced, and it is part of a YACA, so Kwanlin Dün First Nation was
actually awarded the contract to proceed, and I believe they have hired a l=
ocal
contractor to do the work. For those who are familiar with the area, they w=
ill
see the progress at the top end of Hoge Street =
in
downtown Whitehorse on that facility, and we look forward to hearing from t=
he
planning committee. I do have a meeting scheduled with the City of Whitehor=
se
for this Friday to discuss a number of topics, including this planning proc=
ess
that is underway for Fifth and Rogers. We are excited about the opportuniti=
es
there and we look forward to the results of the work of the planning commit=
tee
to determine what types of development will be placed on that site.<=
/p>
Mr. Tredger: I
thank the minister for his answer. I have a number of questions around type=
2
mines and mines that have recently closed. Can the minister provide an upda=
te
for what is happening with the Wolverine mine? Is the mine in compliance wi=
th
the temporary closure plan? Is there any flooding going on still? If it has
been stopped, has the mine been pumped clear? If it is being allowed to
continue, has the department identified whether or not there will be any
additional costs for closure when the final mine closure plan is ultimately
implemented? What interest has been shown with regard to the sale of the mi=
ne? Hon. Mr. Kent: I
thank the member opposite for his question with respect to the Wolverine mi=
ne
site. I know we’ve talked about it on a number of occasions here in t=
he
Legislature. The latest information that I have in my briefing packages from
October 27, 2015 — if any of the responses I provide have changed in =
the
intervening time, I’ll certainly get that updated information to the
floor of the House as soon as I can by way of letter or perhaps at a future
time when Energy, Mines and Resources is up for debate. With r=
espect to
the Wolverine mine, we’re certainly — and it bears saying again
— deeply disappointed with the effect that closure has had on local
suppliers and people who were employed at the mine. The creditor protection
process has resulted in an approved plan of arrangement and a commitment fr=
om
JDC Group of $15 million to fund the plan, which included payment of all
outstanding financial security and property tax owed to the Government of
Yukon. The monitor’s 11th report to the court indicates th=
at
the company received $13 million in restructuring funds rather than the $15
million it was to receive under its loan agreement with its parent company.=
The
monitor also indicates that the additional $2 million may be advanced in the
future. There’s certainly no reason for us at this point to believe
otherwise. YG is =
closely
monitoring Yukon Zinc’s temporary closure activities and expects that=
the
company will follow through on their commitments. On October 2, 2015, the
outstanding financial security for the Wolverine mine was paid in full by Y=
ukon
Zinc. Yukon government now holds $10,588,966 in financial security under Yu=
kon
Zinc’s quartz mine licensing and water use licence. A
YG working group continues to work with Yukon Zinc officials to monitor the
mine site to make certain that regulatory requirements are met and to ensure
that plans are implemented for public safety and environmental protection.<=
/span> Yukon =
Zinc is
fully secured at this point and has undertaken work to clean up the mine si=
te
and reduce its liability. Madam =
Chair,
I’m not aware of any potential purchasers for the site at this point.
Obviously the MinQuest folks were in the public=
eye
on their offer to purchase the site. I know=
there
were a number of private companies that sought information from us during t=
hat
creditor process, but obviously we ended up with the mine site in the curre=
nt
form that it is. I̵=
7;m not
sure if I answered all of the questions. Anything else that’s outstan=
ding
from the member opposite with respect to flooding of the adit
and pumping out of water, I’ll get back to him on. I don’t have
that information — I don’t believe — in the notes that I =
have
here today, but I will commit to getting back to the member opposite with
proper information on what’s happening on the site. Under =
the temporary
closure, the company is the one on-site that is doing the work, and Energy,
Mines and Resources, through Compliance Monitoring and Inspections and our
minerals branch, continues to monitor the site and ensure that things are d=
one
in compliance with their temporary closure plan. Mr. Tredger: I
thank the minister for his answers and I would appreciate any update on the
flooding. I know there was a real concern that the mine’s closure plan
was to not have flooding, yet during the time when the Wolverine mine owners
could not keep it running, there had been some pumps that were flooded and
there was a concern that, once that was flooded, the water would be
contaminated and very difficult to safely dispose of. An update on that wou=
ld
be important. I have=
just a
question on security. Security is part of the mining regime, and security is
taken by the government to ensure that the mining company remains and cleans
up. Usually the security must be set high enough and appropriate enough =
212;
it’s a balance, I understand, between the mine operators and the
government. My understanding of security is that it must be high enough so =
the
company will find it beneficial to do the cleanup themselves, because certa=
inly
the government doesn’t want to be the one left to clean up, as in this
kind of case. In the=
case of
Wolverine mine, an independent assessment to establish security arrived at =
the
amount of $13 million. My understanding is that the minister then entered i=
nto
negotiations with the company and arrived at a total of around $10 million.
When this situation was ongoing and it appeared the mine had only paid $7.2
million, the minister stated in the House that he felt that was adequate and
that all the liabilities would be covered. That=
8217;s
quite a discrepancy from $7.2 million to $10 million to $13 million. Can the
minister review how security is determined? It was my understanding that an
independent assessor would arrive at securities, and that was what was
established. However, in this case, it doesn’t appear to have been
followed. Could =
the
minister refresh my mind and the public’s mind as to how securities a=
re
determined and how we ensure that, over time, as mines expand or contract, =
the
securities are adjusted to take that into account and take into account
inflation problems that may be encountered so that the government is not the
one left holding security and having to clean up with inadequate funding?=
span> Hon. Mr. Kent:=
span> Just to start, the setting of security is not a ministe=
rial
responsibility. It’s something that is done at the department level.
Obviously we have experts and professionals who work on the setting of
security. They determine how much is to be held so that the site can be
returned to as close to its original state as possible. A coup=
le of
things with respect to the Wolverine mine site in question. As I mentioned =
in
my earlier response, we now hold $10,588,966 in financial security, which is
the full amount that was set by the department. There is some progressive
reclamation that is underway reducing the costs of the final reclamation, so
that may be one of the factors that has led from the independent amount that
the member opposite referenced to where the security was set. We did=
pursue
charges against Yukon Zinc for its failure to comply with the security sche=
dule
that was set out — the maximum fine for which is $100,000 and that was
recently concluded in court as well. Again,=
there are
a number of factors that contribute to the setting of s=
ecurity,
and many of the mine sites and mining companies — this is a particula=
rly
good time to talk about it as we are around geoscience time and the awardin=
g of
the Leckie Awards. Many of those companies that
received Leckie Awards are doing progressive
reclamation on their sites and cleaning up. In the case of the placer mining
winners, of course, they cleaned up historic pollutants and contamination a=
nd
some of the aspects associated with the mine originally. Again,=
this is
something that we rely on officials to do — to work with the companie=
s to
set the security and make sure that there is enough in =
place
for us to do the work necessary upon the closure of the mine. Mr. Tredger: A
30-percent discrepancy would, to my mind, be quite significant between what=
the
independent assessor came up with and what EMR came up with. Is it common f=
or
EMR to now follow the recommendations of the independent assessor? Is this a
usual procedure — that we go out and hire somebody to assess the cost=
s of
reclaiming a mine and then not have those costs met — or they would be
varied by, in this case, 30 percent? Hon. Mr. Kent: The
Yukon mine reclamation and closure policy reflects the government’s c=
ommitment
to ensure that environmental protection, responsible economic development a=
nd
fiscal responsibility are part of managing non-renewable resources in the
territory. Every mining project needs a reclamation and closure plan that h=
as
been approved by Yukon government before proceeding with development. An
updated reclamation and closure plan is required for submission at least ev=
ery
two years. As part of all reclamation and closure plan updates, we require
estimates of financial liability associated with the site throughout the li=
fe
of the project. As far=
as the
independent assessment work, there is that work that is completed and then
there is work between the company and the Department of Energy, Mines and
Resources’ officials. We have an official in the department who
determines security in consultation with an expert consultant as well as ot=
her
officials in the department. Again, because of the ongoing reclamation work,
the total reclamation costs are decreasing. That is one of the contributing
factors, I believe, as to why sometimes the amount — initially though=
t to
be necessary for closure — is less than that amount. It is done more =
on a
case-by-case basis, but it is something that is not ministerial responsibil=
ity
— rather it is the responsibility of the professional public service =
in
Energy, Mines and Resources, working with consultants and experts on how to=
set
the security. Mr. Tredger: I
guess I do have a concern that we would be hiring an expert consultant to c=
ome
in and to give us advice and to make an assessment. In the case of Wolverin=
e,
certainly they were still in an expansion phase. I’m not sure how much
progressive reclamation — although I do understand the term and have =
seen
it work in other mine sites. Usually, as they go along, they do reclaim
projects and stuff but, in the case of Wolverine, I believe most of the
liabilities were still being incurred — let alone being resolved. To =
my
mind, if anything, the amount should be going up. Howeve=
r, I guess
I can leave the minister with a recommendation that we review how securities
are being determined and review what information goes into that to ensure t=
hat,
as costs rise as inflation sets in, we aren’t left with mines that the
government of the day has to step in and reclaim. In the interest of buildi=
ng a
sustainable industry, those good companies — as the minister suggeste=
d,
the ones that we recognize, the ones who are reclaiming, the ones who are
responsibly mining — don’t need to wear the mistakes of compani=
es
that aren’t doing that. It doesn’t take many bad apples to ruin=
the
reputation of the industry as a whole. As the=
minister
is well aware — and I am aware — the industry in Yukon and our
industrial partners have a very good reputation. I only need to look in my =
area
at Victoria Gold or at Capstone or at Alexco to=
see
the kind of work that is being done to be appreciative of it. It’s
important that we look at securities very closely to ensure that our territ=
ory
and the reputation of the industry are protected. I will=
move on
to the Ketza River mine. Last April, Veris Gold walked away from their care and maintenance
responsibilities at the Ketza River mine. The
government stepped in and took over. The situation at =
Ketza
River shares some similarities with the Wolverine mine. Both companies went
into creditor protection and YG had to step in and take some control. Howev=
er, Ketza River mine is a type 2 mine site. It’s a
historic liability and we share the responsibility now with Canada. Presuma=
bly,
the environmental liabilities occurred prior to devolution and the
responsibility lies with the federal government. It is our understanding th=
at
some money has been allocated under Oil, Gas and Mineral Resources Division=
in
the EMR supplementary budget, and that is for remediation work occurring at=
the
Ketza River mine. Can the minister elaborate on=
what
work has been done? Can he provide a timeline for
future work? Hon. Mr. Kent:=
span> Just stepping back to Wolverine, to turn the page on th=
at, I
would be interested to hear who the member spoke to about — or if he =
did
speak to someone about the liability at the Wolverine mine. I certainly rel=
y on
information that I am fortunate to have from experts and officials in the
department to talk to about that, but if there is someone out there who has
suggested that the amount of security held for that project and the progres=
sive
reclamation didn’t make up the balance, I would certainly be interest=
ed
in hearing about that so we could reach out to them and address their conce=
rns.
When i=
t comes to
the independent assessments, the Yukon government obviously seeks one. The
companies, in many cases, will also have their own experts who provide numb=
ers,
and then there is work done between the parties to settle on a number.
That’s where we settled with respect to Wolverine. That security is h=
eld
and none of it has been accessed to date with the activities — the
temporary closure — and the activities being undertaken there are sti=
ll
the responsibility and are being funded by Yukon Zinc and their parent comp=
any.
Maybe =
what I
will do with respect to type 2 mine sites, because I know the member opposi=
te
will have questions on a number of them — and I thank him for his
question yesterday in Question Period. We did receive an updated note from =
the
department with respect to the type 2 sites that we’re managing,
including Ketza River. This might take a little=
bit
of time, but I’m just going to provide updates on the type 2 sites
— what their status is and what work has been accomplished —
especially with respect to the remediation plan and where we are, as far as
that goes. I know it was a question brought up yesterday, I believe in Ques=
tion
Period, by the Member for Mayo-Tatchun.<=
/p>
Just t=
o repeat,
the Government of Canada remains responsible for the pre-devolution liabili=
ties
at all type 2 mine sites. Yukon government is committed to protecting human
health, safety and the environment of the four abandoned type 2 sites in Yu=
kon.
That’s Clinton Creek, Mount Nansen, Ketza=
now,
as well as Faro. Starti=
ng with
Clinton Creek, it is a site that’s currently under care and maintenan=
ce.
It’s in the traditional territory of the Tr’=
;ondëk
Hwëch’in First Nation. It’s accessible from the Top of the
World Highway. Construction work recently completed at Clinton Creek involv=
ed
the repair of a drop structure to control the flow of water discharging fro=
m Hudgeon Lake. The structure was damaged in 2010 due t=
o high
water flow. The drop structure repair work was designed by Worley Parsons in
2014 and the construction work was completed in October of this year by a l=
ocal
contractor following a competitive bidding process. The wo=
rk cost
$1.3 million and was funded by Canada. Due to ongoing health and safety
concerns related to slope stability along Clinton Creek, the branch has clo=
sed
the site to public access. Site access will remain restricted until an
acceptable level of health and safety can be established. Assess=
ment and
Abandoned Mines branch, the Government of Canada and the Tr’ondëk
Hwëch’in are working together to develop and implement a
cost-effective approach to remediating the Clinton Creek site. All parties
recently identified closure options that would be acceptable and are prepar=
ing
to evaluate these against the agreed-to closure objectives. Moving=
on to
Mount Nansen, which is in the member’s riding, in the traditional
territory of the Little Salmon Carmacks First Nation, the status of that si=
te
is that it is under care and maintenance. The overall remediation plan has =
been
developed to a 30-percent level. The Government of Canada is leading the
process to consider lower cost options for remediation. Curren=
tly
Denison Environmental Services is the contractor responsible for care and m=
aintenance
activities for the Mount Nansen site until March 31 of 2016. The work is be=
ing
carried out under section 37 of the Waters
Act. Yukon government has completed a 30-percent design for the overall
remediation of the Mount Nansen mine site. However, the expected constructi=
on
costs accompanying the 30-percent design are higher than the initial closure
option evaluation estimate. The Government of Canada, as I mentioned, is
leading a process to explore how to reduce the costs associated with the de=
sign
before moving ahead. The Go=
vernment
of Canada is also considering the sale of the residual claims and leases of
Mount Nansen and passing the responsibility to design and execute the selec=
ted
overall remediation plan on to the successful purchaser. This option may be
submitted to the court by the former AANDC department — I believe they
have changed their name with the recent federal election to Indigenous and
Northern Affairs, I believe, so back to an INAC acronym. While
remediation options are being considered, Assessment and Abandoned Mines
continues to monitor water quality on a monthly basis and report results to
Canada and the Little Salmon Carmacks First Nation. Yukon, the Government of
Canada and Little Salmon Carmacks First Nation are currently reviewing opti=
ons
for implementation of the remediation plan. Moving=
on to the
Ketza River mine site — the site was aban=
doned
April 10, 2015. Care and maintenance is underway. Parties are examining
approaches to site remediation. It is located in the traditional territorie=
s of
the Liard First Nation, Ross River Dena Council as well as the Teslin Tling=
it
Council and the Kaska Dena Council. When <=
span
class=3DSpellE>Ketza River mine was abandoned in April of this year =
it
created a requirement to distinguish between Canada’s pre-devolution
liabilities and any liabilities incurred post-devolution. Those post-devolu=
tion
liabilities were associated with exploration work and we did receive a secu=
rity
against that. I don’t have the amount with me but I believe I have sp=
oken
about it previously in the House.
Yukon =
government
awarded a contract to Boreal Engineering for care and maintenance at the Ketza River mine site using security funds held by Yu=
kon
following a public procurement process. Care and maintenance activities are
currently being delivered under section 37 of the Waters Act and include management and maintenance of dams and
diversions and treatment of contaminated water.
The Yu= kon government is also overseeing $250,000 of additional work as part of care a= nd maintenance that update critical site infrastructure to ensure protection of worker health and safety. The Yukon government is working with the Governme= nt of Canada to develop an approach to long-term remediation of the site. The Yukon government and the Government of Canada are engaging the affected Fir= st Nations that I mentioned whose traditional territory this project lies with= in with regard to care, maintenance and remediation. A contract for maintenanc= e of the 42-kilometre public access road was awarded this winter.
I shou= ld say that the MLA for Pelly-Nisutlin and I visited the site as part of some mine site tours that occurred this summer and we were given a tour by Boreal Engineering, which has the contract, by officials who work for them. We were better able to get a determination ourselves with respect to that site about what we’re dealing with.
The fi= nal one that I will talk about of course is the most complex that we have as far as type 2 sites in the territory and that’s the Faro mine. Current status — the site is under care and maintenance. There is a remediation plan completed to 20-percent design definition. There are a number of emerging environmental issues requiring significant changes to previous plans.
This p= roject is located within the traditional territories of the Liard First Nation, Ross River Dena Council, Kaska Dena Council and Selk= irk First Nation.
Tlicho Engineering and Environmental Services Ltd. currently h= olds the contract for site care and maintenance until March 31, 2016. Care and maintenance costs $10 million to $12 million per year and is critical to protect human health and safety and the environment in the near term. Assessment and Abandoned Mines is seeking bids through a competitive process for care and maintenance beyond March 2016. The tender is scheduled to clos= e in December and a contractor must be in place by April 1, 2016. The four-year pre-contract estimate is approximately $52 million.
CH2M H= ill, which is an engineering firm, has been the design lead on the project since the f= all of 2011. Their contract also expires in 2016. During their tenure, CH2M Hill designed and constructed a new $16-million water treatment plant, replacing= an aging converted-mill-based treatment process. Again, as I think I mentioned= in Question Period yesterday, the MLA for Pelly-Nisutlin and I had the opportu= nity to visit that treatment facility last fall, and I believe it’s now functioning at full capacity. CH2M Hill also advanced the overall remediati= on design from the feasibility stage to an approximate 20-percent level of des= ign — however, with changing site conditions that have impacted remediati= on priorities and forced a change to remediation schedules. Specifically, elev= ated zinc levels sourced from the Faro waste-rock dump were discovered to be contaminating water in the north fork of Rose Creek late in 2013, leading t= o an inspector’s direction issued by Environment Canada.
A $5-m= illion interim solution for the north fork of Rose Creek was designed and construc= ted in 2014, but unfortunately has proven to be insufficient to fully address t= he issue. Water quality and fish movement in the north fork of Rose Creek cont= inue to be monitored, while planning and design work for a permanent solution for the north fork of Rose Creek is expedited as a priority. The permanent solu= tion involved constructing the final remediation component for the north fork ar= ea and requires advancing this ahead of the overall remediation plan.= p>
The pe= rmanent solution involves the construction of a new dam and diversion system and is expected to cost over $100 million and take three to five years to complete. CH2M Hill is expected to deliver a 30-percent design by March 2016, with construction expected to start in 2017. Permanent upgrades to the major diversion and dam structure in the Rose Creek tailing facility have also be= en fast-tracked in the face of ongoing flood-related risk and are planned for construction starting in 2017.
Work i= s expected to cost $50 million and take two years to construct. All activities at the = Faro site are currently being carried out under section 37 of the Waters Act. Yukon is encouraging C= anada to pursue a water licence for the remediation of the north fork of Rose Cre= ek and other urgent works. The branch continues to keep affected First Nations= and the Town of Faro apprised of the status of care and maintenance activities = and of north fork of Rose Creek remediation.
I than= k members for their patience in allowing me to go through a status summary of those f= our abandoned type 2 sites in the Yukon, and I’ll look forward to further= questions on that.
Mr. Tredger: I thank the minister for his answer.
I do h= ave a number of questions around our type 2 sites and I will get to them. There w= ere a number of issues that came up, as the minister was speaking.
First,= I had asked last year whether or not there was a sunset clause with the Governmen= t of Canada. My understanding from some people was that around 2022 was a date t= hat comes to mind. The minister said that he would look into that and come up w= ith an answer.
Is the= minister aware of any sunset clause, or whether the Government of Canada will remain fiscally responsible for all type 2 sites and all money incurred in perpetu= ity?
Hon. Mr. Kent: The only deadline that we are aware of is that the Government of Canada —= and the department responsible — has to go back to Treasury Board in 2020= to seek further funds with respect to the type 2 mine sites. There is no sunset clause where they can walk away from responsibility. They do need to seek further funds in 2020.
Mr. Tredger: I just want to go back to the question on Wolverine mine. The minister wonder= ed where I had gotten my information or if there was somebody who had expressed concern. It was merely looking at the figures that the minister himself had provided — the $13 million that the independent expert consultant had given us, the $10 million that we arrived at, and I believe it was about $7= .5 million that the minister said in the House was adequate. That is quite a change. That is why I was asking the questions around how security was determined and how we determined whether it’s accurate. I certainly wasn’t implying that I had information saying that what we do hold is adequate or not. I don’t have the expertise to do that, and I rely on= the minister and the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources for their expert= ise to ensure — my job is to ask some questions around that and to try to determine how solutions are arrived at, but I depend on the figures that the minister himself presents.
At Cli= nton Creek, there is a new control-of-water dam and it was completed in in Octob= er. Is the water being tested and monitored for elevated levels of heavy metals? What is the timeline for the final closure plan?
Hon. Mr. Kent:= span> My understanding from officials is that there is no act= ive water treatment on-site and that the water quality is fine. I will regroup = with officials in Assessment and Abandoned Mines just to ensure that this information is accurate.
As I m= entioned during my summary, Assessment and Abandoned Mines branch, the Government of Canada and the Tr’ondëk Hwëch= 217;in are working together to develop and implement a cost-effective approach to remediating that site. All parties recently identified closure options that would be acceptable and are preparing to evaluate these against the agreed-= to closure objectives for that site. The work that was undertaken there with respect to the dropped structure was completed this year. It was to control= the flow of water discharging from Hudgeon Lake. Th= at structure was damaged in 2010 due to high water flow, but that was work that was carried out this year. The final remediation plan is yet to be developed between the parties.
Mr. Tredger: The minister is assuming that the water quality is fine= . Is it being tested and monitored on a regular basis?
Hon. Mr. Kent: That’s one of the things I will regroup with Assessment and Abandoned Mines on = 212; just to determine the frequency of water testing on the site. As I have sai= d, it is my understanding that there is no active treatment of that water but I will make sure that I get the information back to the member opposite with respect to the frequency of water testing and any other activities that are being taken under the care and maintenance activities currently underway th= ere.
Mr. Tredger: The minister mentioned that a number of the sites were = being worked under section 37 of the Wate= rs Act. My understanding was that section 37 was to be used on an emergency basis. = Can the minister explain the use of section 37, how many sites it is being used= at, and how long each site has been under section 37?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Section 37 of the Waters Act is being u= sed, in this case, in the absence of a water licence in place by the federal government. They would be the ones responsible for attaining a water licenc= e.
It is = currently being used, as I mentioned, at Mount Nansen, at Ketza<= /span> River, for the care and maintenance activities there, as well as, I believe= , at the Faro mine site — the three of the four. The one where it’s = not being used is at the Clinton Creek mine site but, as I mentioned, the Yukon= is encouraging Canada to pursue a water licence at Faro for the remediation of= the north fork of Rose Creek as well as other urgent works that are on that sit= e.
Mr. Tredger: What enables us to use section 37 and not obtain a water licence? Under what conditions was that thought to be necessary?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Obviously this work is important and of an urgent nature. Attaining a water licence f= or that will require the remediation plan to be developed. It will require it = to go through the YESAA process and then obtain all the necessary licences, including the water use licence.
That p= rocess could take — for a more complicated site, it could be a two- to three-year period, once it enters the assessment phase, let alone the design work that’s being undertaken. I did mention where we were on Mount Na= nsen at 30-percent and Faro at 20-percent design, so there’s still a substantial amount of work that needs to be done on the design for the remediation, and then the environmental assessment and water processes will have to be undertaken after that.
Again,= in the interim, it’s important that we continue to be active on the site, and that’s why section 37 of the = Waters Act has been used to remain active on the site, doing the work that we = need to do to protect human health and the environment.
Mr. Tredger: I guess my understanding of section 37 was that it was put into the Waters Act to account for seasonal variations and temporary excess discharge, but I know Mount Nansen has been under section 37 for as long as I’ve been an MLA, so that’s goi= ng on five years now.
I̵= 7;m not sure about Clinton Creek or Faro. Can the minister tell us how long each of those type 2 sites have been under section 37? What does it mean, in terms = of water quality, when we can’t get a water licence and have to resort to section 37?
Hon. Mr. Kent: I don’t have the information with me with respect to how long we’= ve been using section 37 at the three sites where it’s being used. Again, it’s not being used at Clinton Creek; it is being used at Mount Nanse= n, Ketza River mine and the Faro mine. I visited two of = those sites — Ketza and Faro — and there = is active water treatment at those two sites. My understanding is that there is active water treatment at Mount Nansen as well.
As I m= entioned with respect to Mount Nansen, there is the government’s report on wat= er quality — Assessment and Abandoned Mines continues to monitor water quality on a monthly basis and report results to Canada and Little Salmon Carmacks First Nation. I will get the frequency of that testing and reporti= ng for Ketza and Faro, but when I was on-site at F= aro with the MLA, there is certainly a significant amount of water testing that occurs at different sites throughout that complex on a daily basis.<= /p>
Again, it’s certainly not the ideal situation, but again in the absence of a remediation plan, the environmental assessment and the necessary assessment= s in place, it’s the situation that we need to act under and we will conti= nue to do that. My understanding is — again with the exception of the nor= th fork of Rose Creek — that the water is tested and is within the Environment Canada limits and standards as well.
Mr. Tredger: I was going to ask about testing and water quality.
I thin= k this highlights for me the need for water quality testing and data that is readi= ly available to the public. I know that we’re dealing with very complex sites and I know that the EMR people are working very hard on it and it is a complicated issue. However, for people living downstream, for people in the area and for people who have worked in the area, it would be important to h= ave some sense of the water quality data.
I know= I mentioned to the minister last year how useful I found the Geological Survey interactive map of the Yukon. I would suggest, ask or mention, in the inter= est of good governance and to ease the minds of many people, that the department develop an interactive map whereby individuals can click on, say, a Mount Nansen site and get the latest results in terms what heavy metals are being discharged, what turbidity there is, whether the water is safe to drink or whether, as in the case of Rose Creek, there are elevated levels of zinc or= , as in the case of Mount Nansen, there is perhaps arsenic — also, how clo= se these are to standards that the federal and territorial governments have set and whether the time-loading — because some of these, as I say, have = been in place for at least five years. What might be under the regulations for w= ater quality that the federal or territorial governments have set — over t= ime, we know that heavy metals settle out and could present a problem in the fut= ure. Has the minister or will the minister work on developing a means of reporti= ng?
I aske= d about the reports I know about around Faro and the elevated zinc that was going i= nto Rose Creek. Now, a year ago constituents raised concerns about it with me, = and they had heard rumours and people were saying, “Don’t go near t= he water at Pelly Crossing” and all types of concerns were being raised = and my thought was — it’s important to get the information out in an accessible manner so that people don’t overreact and so that they can build trust.
We hav= e spent $238 million on remediation of type 2 sites. This should be a good news sto= ry. I think the Yukon public recognizes that it is complicated and we do have a= big mess on our hands, but if they can get the information, they would have more faith in what is actually being done to remediate, so when I go down to the river at my home by Pelly Crossing, I don’t have to wonder about whet= her there are elevated levels of zinc in the Pelly River. I don’t have to wonder whether it has been defused enough or if, after five years, it has b= een defused enough, or after 10 or 20 years. Those kinds of results are very important. It is the same for our operating mines. If we are going to have industry, we need to have reliable, accessible data for the public. As I sa= id in Question Period yesterday, the site for the Faro reclamation was down for the last couple of months. People don’t have access to the latest results. The nearest thing that I could find was from the Yukon Conservation Society putting up their — albeit limited — results. The Yukon public should have access to that. We should have access to the results that are being determined at not only type 2 sites, but places like Keno, the Mi= nto mine and operating mine sites around the Yukon. It would be important to ha= ve an interactive and accessible map. I wonder if the minister can comment.
Hon. Mr. Kent:= span> I thank the member opposite for raising this point. Obviously, keeping Yukoners informed about issues of importance is something that’s important to the Yukon government, and it’s a responsibility, I believe, of the Yukon government as well. What I will com= mit to is looking into some of the various websites that we have, which ones ma= ke more sense, providing information that is understandable to lay people throughout the territory and trying to see if we can merge that information with some of the other interactive websites that we have, not only in Energ= y, Mines and Resources, but perhaps looking to Environment with some of their information flow as well.
I know= that this something that is extremely important to the Member for Mayo-Tatchun, and I’ll look into it and hopefully re= port back to the House perhaps in the spring with what we have done. I know inte= rnal discussions have already started in Energy, Mines and Resources between sen= ior officials and those in our communications shop on how we can better inform = and ensure that our websites are maintained and have the most current informati= on possible with respect to the type of information that we provide and import= ant information for Yukoners.
Mr. Tredger: If I could go back to Ketza River — the Yukon government seized Veris Gold’s securities= at one point to conduct repairs to a road to access the site.
My que= stion is: Has environmental liability been seized by YG to fix bridges or roads in the past — I realize there is a need for accessibility to the site — and will that have any effect on the amount of money left over for remediat= ion and care and maintenance that is occurring there now? Of the money that is = in our supplementary budget, how much is for remediation work and how much is = for site maintenance?
Hon. Mr. Kent: Just to take a bit of a step back, with respect to the Ketz= a road and the seizing of that security, obviously there was some work that w= as required at the mine site, but a portion of that money was seized to conduct work on the roads and, I believe, some of the bridges that were associated = with the road as well.
Occupa= tional Health and Safety, I believe at the time, had identified some safety issues with respect to the road. Rather than going through our internal processes = of Management Board and other aspects, we determined that the best course of action was to use security to upgrade that road and do the work necessary at the site. Again, that work was completed and care and maintenance activity = is underway at the Ketza River site right now. My understanding is that is the only activity underway — care and maintenance, mostly associated with water treatment. As I mentioned in my earlier remarks, the Yukon government is working with the Government of Can= ada to develop an approach to the long-term remediation of the site.
I will= follow up, though, with the member opposite. I want to confirm with officials in Energy, Mines and Resources and Highways and Public Works whether an amount= has been transferred back to the security fund from our general revenues to sup= port the work on the road itself. I will look into that. It seems to me that it = was something I was working with the previous Minister of Highways and Public W= orks on, prior to transition and prior to the Cabinet shuffle in January. I will= beg the House’s indulgence so I can get a better handle on exactly what transpired with respect to that money.
The supplementary budget itself — I mentioned in my opening remarks that = we revoted $1.74 million to address care and maintenance activities at Ketza. It is 100-percent recovera= ble from a third party and there was the seizure of $797,000 from Ketza River Holdings for reclamation and a further in= ternal transfer of $710,000 from Compliance Monitoring and Inspections to Assessme= nt and Abandoned Mines. I think I went through that in my opening remarks with respect to the supplementary budget.
Mr. Tredger: A quick question on Faro: There was a mandated steering committee. Have they = been meeting on a regular basis and kept informed and involved? As a supplement = to that, I know that a number of my constituents have expressed concern about = not only Rose Creek, but the Pelly River. Can the minister give them assurances, through answering this question, that indeed the site at Faro hasn’t = been breached to the extent that it is affecting downstream residents, and should they be taking precautions around fish and water?
Hon. Mr. Kent:= span> With respect to the elevated zinc levels, they are sour= ced from the Faro waste-rock dump. They were discovered to be contaminating wat= er in the north fork of Rose Creek late in 2013. That fork of the creek does f= low into the main stem within the Faro mine complex. My understanding is that, = by the time that water reaches that section of the creek, it is compliant. So there are no downstream effects for residents. Everything is occurring with= in the Faro mine complex itself.
The st= eering committee that the member opposite refers to, I believe it is Yukon governm= ent and First Nations and it last met in the summer. I know I’ve been personally approached by representatives of the Town of Faro. I haven’= ;t had a conversation with the newly elected mayor and council yet — but= I intend to — about better ways to keep the people in the Town of Faro informed with respect to activities at the mine. We’re endeavouring to undertake those types of meetings to try to find, as I mentioned, the best = way to ensure that the people who live in Faro are very well-informed, as well = as other affected communities around there.
That= 8217;s something that I know is important to them, and I know officials from Assessment and Abandoned Mines have recently met with leaders in Faro. The director of the branch has met with the new mayor to discuss their involvem= ent. This was after I had conversations with senior officials in EMR to find a better way to ensure that people who live in the Town of Faro are informed = of the activity and what is happening at the Faro mine site.
Mr. Tredger: I believe that the steering committee involved a number of First Nations. The= re has been quite a bit of activity. How have the First Nations been informed = and have they been involved on the steering committee? My concern — and I wanted the minister to be aware of it — is that the First Nations are feeling like they haven’t been involved and they’re concerned t= hat there are events happening. The steering committee certainly hasn’t b= een meeting on a regular basis, and much of this information would affect them = and their traditional territories, as well as activities upon the land.<= /p>
Is the= minister also approaching the First Nations to reinvigorate or reinstitute the steer= ing committee and ensure that it becomes active and the First Nations have the opportunity to be involved?
Hon. Mr. Kent: The committee that the member opposite is referring to last met in July. I̵= 7;ll find out when the next meeting is. Obviously First Nations are also interes= ted in the potential economic opportunities with the impending closing of the c= are and maintenance contract tender, so they have been actively engaged with officials working through that tender process as we approach the closing da= te that is scheduled for September, and then the eventual award and start-up of the new care and maintenance contract in 2016.
Yes, w= e’re engaged with the First Nations on a number of levels. The last meeting was = in July with respect to this project. As I mentioned, I’ll find out when= the next meeting is scheduled for.
Mr. Tredger: I would like to ask a number of questions about Keno at this time. It’s= my understanding that the well at Keno — the last well that has been safe — by the old fire hall has not been used. Residents have been told th= at the well will have to be purged. For the last three months, water has been trucked from Mayo to Keno. There’s concern that, with approaching win= ter, delivery may be interrupted. As we’re well aware, the roads are precarious at best, and I know that, at 40 below, water freezes. In the pas= t there has been trouble with water delivery within the Town of Faro, let alone trucking it all the way from Mayo when it’s cold.
The re= sidents have asked why the water results haven’t been posted, as agreed to. It may go back to what we were referring to earlier — that we don’t have an easy way to get the information that we have to residents of the ar= ea. As far as I know, as of this morning, the results weren’t posted. I realize there was a meeting about two or three weeks ago in which the resid= ents were promised that they would be getting the results. They still don’t have them. This is their water supply. This is the last remaining well. It’s quite important to them.
Can th= e minister work with the inter-departmental agency — of which his department is = one member — to ensure that the residents of Keno have the well results a= nd the water-testing results posted? Can he tell me whether or not the results include testing for heavy metals — cadmium, et cetera?
Hon. Mr. Kent: My response is going to be brief on this because this is primarily the responsibility of Community Services.
I do h= ave something in my notes with respect to this, though, so I will share that no= w. For any additional information required, perhaps members opposite can follo= w up with the Minister of Community Services.
The qu= ality of water from the community well is a concern. It’s operated by the Yukon government’s Department of Community Services. As the member mentione= d, water is being trucked from Mayo to Keno at this time.
Well w= ater is sampled annually for a full suite of metals and quarterly for a subset of elements, and the test results are available through the Department of Community Services.
With r= espect to the meeting that took place a couple of weeks ago and any subsequent commit= ments, I would again refer members to the Minister of Community Services as he has= the primary lead on this particular issue.
Mr. Tredger: I sense some of the frustration of the residents of Keno. I know the Member f= or Klondike asked the Minister of Community Services a question about the well= .
When r= esidents in rural Yukon — in urban Yukon too — work with the Government of Yukon, they are often aware that there has been a real silo effect and that it’s difficult to determine which department is responsible. <= /p>
I know= one of the commitments that probably all three parties made in the last election — certainly our party did, as did the Yukon Party — was that th= ey would work to lessen the effect of silos.
If we =
take Keno
— several years ago a health assessment impact study was done by Dr.&=
nbsp;Hanley,
and one of his recommendations was for an organized governance structure wi=
th a
formal means of communication that would be a point of access for the
government, for industry and for the community. This was again noted in
For the
Department of Energy, Mines and Resources to say that it’s a Community
Services’ issue is a little bit disingenuo=
us.
All of the wells in Keno have been closed except this one. We are aware that
one of the most toxic adits in Canada is the Onek 400.
In 201= 3, two key studies — and I will read from a report: “Two key studies are t= he basis to determine potential environmental effects from the Onek 400 adit. First, the mass balance load modeling study…shows approximately 47% of the cadmium in = Christal Creek is from Onek, and 57% of the zinc in Christal Creek is from Onek. This is a significant percentage of the contaminant load that is recognized to be limiting the potential for a healthy fishery in Christ= al Creek in the future.”
Christal Creek is on the oppo= site side of Keno from the Onek adit. The water from the Onek ad= it is going to ground and somehow passing through Keno and getting to Christal Creek. The fact that the well is contam= inated should come as no surprise. And yet, last year, falling through the governm= ent cracks, that well wasn’t tested for over 14 months, despite assurance= s to the residents that it would be tested on a quarterly basis. When we ask questions in the House, one department points to another department.= Meanwhile, the residents of Keno no longer have a well that isn’t contaminated.
The re= port goes on to say that, “… adit drainage go= es to groundwater within 100 meters of the adit, and = that a groundwater well in the infiltration area has essentially the same chemistr= y as the adit, indicating that there is essentially = no attenuation of metals along the infiltration route prior to reaching groundwater.” This adit water remains untreated.
My que= stion for the minister: Is the water that is coming out of the a= dit another one that section 37 applies to? Is there a plan for treatment of th= at water?
Hon. Mr. Kent: I guess, with due respect to the member opposite, when questions are asked on= the floor of the House during Committee of the Whole, I am able to provide information that Energy, Mines and Resources has. As I mentioned, the prima= ry lead on the particular file of the community well is the Department of Community Services. The member can wait until that department is up or perh= aps he could talk directly to the minister.
Yukone= rs should know that there are opportunities and occasions when members from opposite sides of the House talk outside of the floor. If there are specific concerns that he would like to bring up with the Minister of Community Services prio= r to debate in that department, I am sure the minister would welcome that. The member engages, and all members from both sides of the House engage, with ministers on specific actions related to their portfolios.
I did = supply the information to the member opposite on the floor of the House that I have be= fore me. If he is seeking further clarification or further answers, I would certainly invite him to take that up with the Minister of Community Service= s. Whether he chooses to wait and do it on the floor of the House or do it out= side of the House is certainly his decision.
When i= t comes to the Keno mine site, I do have some additional information to share. I would like to take the opportunity to thank the management of the Elsa Reclamation and Development Company Ltd. and Alexco for tou= ring me and the Minister of Environment through the site this year. We had a good opportunity to get an idea of what Alexco’s plans are for continued mining when the silver market rebounds and some of = the exciting discoveries that they are making — some of the things that a= re underway — but I guess a lot of their current work is focused really = on the care and maintenance for the Keno site and the remediation design effor= ts.
So jus= t to give an update on the Keno site, it is of course under care and maintenance. The= re is a remediation plan that has been developed by ERDC and YESAA’s submission is in preparation. Assessment and Abandoned Mines branch, the Government of Canada, the First Nation of Na Cho Nyäk Dun, whose traditional territory this mine is in, as well as the Elsa Reclamation and Development Company — ERDC — are working together on the remediation of the Keno site. ERDC is the care and maintenance operator for= the Keno site and leads remediation design efforts. Care and maintenance includ= es activities such as maintenance and management of dams and diversions, treat= ment of contaminated water and health and safety management.
YG, ER= DC, INAC and the First Nation of Na Cho Nyäk Dun have selected a closure approa= ch to address the historic liabilities. Again, to remind members, the Keno Hill silver district has been a producer of approximately 217 million ounces of silver from over 5.3 million tonnes of ore. The time frame was from 1913 to 1989 and there has been additional silver produced there more recently by t= he Alexco group.
Local = residents have expressed two main concerns related to water quality. The first relate= s to the discharge of untreated waste water from the Onek= span> 400 adit. There is no section 37 allowance in p= lace there because there is a water licence. The discharge is allowed under that water licence — the number is QZ12-057 — as long as the water is discharged to ground, as outlined in clause 22 of the water licence. The se= cond concern is the one related to the quality of water from the community well, again operated by the Department of Community Services.
The on= e thing that we learned when we visited the site this year is that the remediation = plan does contemplate treatment of the water from the Onek<= /span> 400 adit. As that moves through the environment= al assessment phase and into the water licensing phase, that will be something that is hopefully done. Again, under the current water licence, the dischar= ge of untreated waste water from that adit is allo= wed, as long as the water is discharged to ground.
Mr. Tredger: As the minister said, it is a complicated issue, and sometimes I raise things = with one minister in hopes that ministers responsible for other departments are listening and have the desire to serve the people of Yukon.
The Onek adit goes to ground =
within 100
yards. However, in the last couple of years there has been more runoff and,=
as
I pointed out to the minister last year, in the spring that runoff builds u=
p,
because the culvert crossing the road has been crushed and the water
can’t go through it. So in the spring freshet, it takes that water an=
d it
pools behind the road. There it evaporates and the chemical-laden dust blows
around town. Residents have been told to wash their vegetables, not to use =
the
water on their gardens and things like that.
I poin= ted that out to the minister last year and received assurances that it would be look= ed at. I just want to update him on the situation now. The culvert remains in place and crushed. However, a new culvert has been brought and laid beside = the road. It hasn’t been installed yet. So next spring we’re going = to have the same problem that we have had for the last couple of years if we continue to get a similar amount of runoff. The water from Onek doesn’t go to ground, it runs across and, if the water is high and th= ere’s lots of rain, it runs across the road and on through people’s yards. I’m not sure of the exact technicalities around whether or not sectio= n 37 is imposed or not, but the reality is that the water is not going to ground. Perhaps there’s an exemption over time, but I would ask the minister = to look into that so he can assure the residents of Keno that this is being lo= oked at. I realize it’s now late for that culvert to be put in place. I’m not sure what the plan is for putting it in place. However, it re= mains adjacent to it.
If the= minister responsible for Energy, Mines and Resources doesn’t feel it’s h= is department’s responsibility, perhaps he can talk to the Minister for Highways and Public Works.
Hon. Mr. Kent: That Highways and Public Works guy is hard to talk to sometimes.
Again,= with respect to what the member opposite raised, it’s something that we’ll take a look into. When I visited the site w= ith the Minister of Environment, my thoughts from that One= k adit — that the water flowed to ground an= d away from the community and away from yards. But I could certainly be mistaken on that, and I will take a look into that and I will get a sense f= or when that culvert is going to be installed. If it is on-site, I will get a = plan for that. It may be the responsibility of Highways and Public Works or Community Services, but it may also be the responsibility of the company th= at is doing care and maintenance on the site.
Just a= gain to repeat, I want to thank officials from Alexco E= RDC. They were very accommodating in touring us around and showing us the site. I would encourage members opposite, if they haven’t done so, to contact= the company and take advantage of the opportunity to take a look at what they’ve done and how they’ve improved the water treatment facil= ities.
They g= ave us a good run through of the remediation plan that they were workshopping at open houses in Mayo, and perhaps Keno, just after we were there. They’re a very well-respected company — not only in Canada but also in the Unit= ed States — for the work that they’re doing and they should be commended for what they’re doing there as far as taking a very complex and historic mine site that, as I mentioned, goes back to 1913 for initial production, and obviously under very different regulations and rules at that time and doing what they’re doing with that site.
Again,= I can’t thank them enough for the tour that they provided to us and I encourage other members, if they haven’t done so, to reach out to them and get their sense of what’s happening on that site and what type of work they’re undertaking and take advantage of the same type of tour = that the Minister of Environment and I were able to do this past fall. = p>
Mr. Tredger: I too would like to thank all the people from industry and from Energy, Mines= and Resources for the work they are doing on our type 2 sites. These are complicated, these are complex, and they are a real liability and there are= no easy solutions.
I just= would encourage the minister and those responsible to develop a way to keep the public informed, to give assurance that the work being done is working or n= ot, so that people are aware of it.
I woul= d like to just ask a couple of quick questions about situations in Selkirk First Nati= on. I know I talked about Ddhaw Ghro before.
I will= just read a little bit from a letter around Ddhaw Ghro: “After more than 40 meetings over five ye= ars, and many hundreds of thousands of dollars, the recommended Ddhaw Ghro Habitat Protection Area Plan was submitted= to the Yukon government in June 2006 for final ratification… So, why is = the plan not final? The Yukon government has stalled ratification for nearly se= ven years because Energy, Mines and Resources staff refuse to agree to a plan recommendation to protect the Ddhaw Ghro hot springs from wildfire… The solution he= re is simple. Tell your EMR staff to agree to the recommended plan. Work with the communities to develop a workable fire management plan. Give the Ddhaw Ghro Habitat Protec= tion Area a final plan. Respect the wishes of Northern Tutchone elders and citiz= ens of Selkirk First Nation, Little Salmon-Carmacks First Nation, and First Nat= ion of Nacho Nyak Dun.” That letter was writt= en by Bob Hayes on April 19, 2013.
The ot= her area that needs work on is the buffer area around Fort Selkirk. I know the minis= ter has been working a bit on that. It has been several years in the making. Selkirk is very concerned about it, and I’m wondering if the minister= has a timeline on when that buffer zone can be finalized — or even an upd= ate as to where negotiations and conversations are around that?
Hon. Mr. Kent: I’ll have to look into the Dhaw Ghro issue. I wasn’t aware that Energy, Mines and Resources had any issues with it. That’s not to say that there aren’t, but Environment, = of course, is responsible for parks and Community Services is responsible for wildland fire, so I’ll have to get a better, more fulsome answer for = the member opposite. As I mentioned, I’m not 100-percent sure what Energy, Mines and Resources’ role would be in that, or if what the writer of = the letter is saying is accurate, but I’ll certainly endeavour to find ou= t.
With r= espect to the Fort Selkirk historic site and the request for a staking prohibition, obviously this is an important site. It is certainly a special part of the heritage of the territory. Our government remains committed to working join= tly with Selkirk First Nation to protect, preserve and promote that site for the benefit of current and future generations. This is a partnership that Energ= y, Mines and Resources has with Tourism and Culture= . Our role at EMR, with respect to the Fort Selkirk historic site — that si= te itself is permanently withdrawn from staking under the Quartz Mining Act and the Placer Mining Act in accordance with the Selkirk First Nation Final Agreement. We’re continuing to have discussions with Selkirk First Nation on a buffer area for Fort Selkirk for withdrawal = from staking, so that associated historic values in the area will be protected. =
It is = a co-owned and co-managed site of Selkirk First Nation and the Yukon government. As I mentioned, it has been withdrawn under the QMA and the PMA in accordance wi= th chapter 13 of the final agreement.
YG and= Selkirk First Nation jointly developed and approved the Fort Selkirk historic site management plan in May 2000, including outlining the boundary of a buffer f= or the site. The management plan covers the full management area as defined in= the Selkirk First Nation Final Agreemen= t, including both lands visible from the historic townsit= e and undefined lands required to buffer the site and control access, and includes both public and settlement lands. The site was, in the interim, withdrawn from staking in 2003 and permanently withdrawn in 2005. In 2013, Selkirk First Nation requested that the area for the buffer zone around the site be withdrawn from mineral staking. During 2013 and 2014, a joint worki= ng group — YG and Selkirk First Nation — looked at heritage values= in the area and recommended a refined buffer zone boundary to encompass identi= fied historic values. The draft buffer area recommended by the joint committee a= rea covers two lapsed partial claims that were formerly held by a junior mining company.
Selkir= k First Nation has subsequently requested a significantly larger buffer than was contemplated in the committee’s November 2014 recommendation. The lar= ger area outlined by the Selkirk First Nation encompasses parts of three active quartz claims that are owned by a junior company.
A 2015= letter from the Premier maintains that we remain interested in working with Selkirk First Nation to define an appropriate area of withdrawal to protect the historic site and values associated with it. Again, work continues to come = up with a compromise and a solution to this important issue, and Energy, Mines= and Resources will continue to play its role in coming up with something that’s sufficient, as far as a buffer zone and a staking withdrawal a= round the Fort Selkirk historic site.
Mr. Tredger: I thank the minister for that answer and would encourage consultation or work with Selkirk First Nation on both those issues.
Change= s to the territorial Lands Act gave the minister the authority to restrict or prohibit the use of off-road vehicles= in sensitive areas on terms and conditions the minister considers necessary. T= he minister said that the selection will allow the government to address some = of the more sensitive areas while we are waiting for regulations to be put in place.
The mi= nister went on to acknowledge that it will take some time to put the regulations in place. During the extensive consultation process leading up to the drafting= of the act, many sensitive areas — such as Trout Lake, Sifton Mountains and Miners Range — were identified. It’s now several years later and, each year, we see more and more trails opened up and more impact on sensitive ecological areas. We will need regulations that create proactive mechanisms for protecting these sensitive areas, but until such regulations are in place, the minister has the authority to use that author= ity under the act to restrict new trail-building in identified sensitive areas. What we’re seeing is that ORVs are causing habitat fragmentation and destruction, ever more encroaching into wilderness areas.
We nee= d baseline data — aerial photos that show the actual spider= web of trails extending into our wilderness areas on= a time-lapse area. We need information to make informed decisions. The encroachment is causing pressures on wildlife and leading to conflicts betw= een area residents, First Nation governments, hunters and outfitters. One saw t= his come to the fore just last week, I believe, when the Fish and Wildlife Management Board addressed sheep-hunting regulations.
We can= ’t afford to wait any longer. The minister was given authority to protect our sensitive areas until regulations are in place. If we wait too long, irreparable damage will be done, especially in the sensitive areas above the treelines and wetlands.
If we = wait too long, we will find ourselves in the situation of Alberta, which did not wan= t to make regulations and eventually had to close down large segments of the foothills of the Rockies. An area that I used to visit, Kananaskis, is now closed to vehicle traffic. We’re in a fortunate position ̵= 2; that we are able to see what has happened in other jurisdictions and act proactively.
My que= stion for the minister — yes, there is a comparison — is: Can he ensure t= hat we get the data set necessary and aerial photos that will determine the gra= dual degradation and segregation of the area? Will he take the baseline data to establish and determine which areas are under the most pressure and take interim measures until we can come up with regulations that will protect th= ese valuable areas — the areas that all Yukoners like so much?
This doesn’t mean we’re denying access in the Yukon to many areas. W= hat it means is that we are acting proactively so we can protect them and there= by not have to deny access, like many other jurisdictions have done.
Hon. Mr. Kent: Seeing the time, Madam Chair, I move that you report progress.
Chair: It ha= s been moved by Mr. Kent that the Chair report progress.
Motion agreed to
Mr. Elias: I move that the Speaker do now resume the Chair.
Chair: It ha= s been moved by Mr. Elias that the Speaker do now resume the Chair.
Motion agreed to
Speaker resumes the Chair
Speaker: I w= ill now call the House to order.
May th= e House have a report from the Chair of Committee of the Whole?
Chair’s
report
Ms. McLeod: Mr. Speaker, Committee of the Whole has considered Bill No. 20, entitled Second Appropriation Act, 2015-16 = and directed me to report progress.
Speaker: You= have heard the report from the Chair of Committee of the Whole.
Are yo= u agreed?
Some Hon. Members: Agreed.
Speaker: I d= eclare the report carried.
Mr. Elias: I move that the House do now adjourn.
Speaker: It = has been moved by the Government House Leader that the House do now adjourn.<= /p>
Motion agreed to
Speaker: Thi= s House now stands adjourned until 1:00 p.m. tomorrow.
The House adjourned at 5:27 p.m.
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